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New No.2 Cincinnati mill.

Fitzy440

Plastic
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Hello everyone. I’m new to the forum. I just bought an old Cincinnati No. 2 vertical mill and need help identifying its age and tool holders. I am new to machining and have tons of questions. I also recently purchased a Lodge and Shipley Lathe of 1909.
 

johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
Hello everyone. I’m new to the forum. I just bought an old Cincinnati No. 2 vertical mill and need help identifying its age and tool holders. I am new to machining and have tons of questions. I also recently purchased a Lodge and Shipley Lathe of 1909.


They started in 1884 if I recall correctly. How old is old? Here is 1897

1897 Cinc Scan 01.jpg

Here is one of the how-to photo posting threads

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...res-south-bend-forum-372508/?highlight=photos

have fun
 

Fitzy440

Plastic
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Thank you John. Where could I find more tooling for it or some service/operation manuals? What are the benefits and drawbacks of the B&S tooling?


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johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
Thank you John. Where could I find more tooling for it or some service/operation manuals? What are the benefits and drawbacks of the B&S tooling?

Digest post #7 first. Then know that every thing about this plus 100 year old item has been obsolete for at least 50 of those years - such as the 375 RPM top speed
 

Fitzy440

Plastic
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Can you tell me how the tooling holder works? Is it similar to Morse Taper 4?
5ed3a677542a2420c29f6c0adcc2e815.jpg



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M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
The one in your hand is for holding face or shell mills. The taper is different than morse dimensionally, but the same functionally. The tool has a draw-bar thread behind it to pull it in and the key'd lug on the front to hold it from spinning. All steep taper tool systems (Morse and B&S) by nature can be difficult to remove if left in for too long, so I'd keep a lead hammer handy and get in the habit of knocking the tool out at the end of the job. More modern taper tool holding systems (CAT, NMTB, etc.) use a shallower taper so it doesn't over tighten, but relies more on the draw bar to keep the tool in place.

I highly doubt any new tooling will be available. Used maybe. Just keep an eye on eBay and the classifieds. Most guys will just make tooling if they can't find it (given that it's simpler than the newer holder systems).

As John noted, this is a very dated machine that was surpassed during WW2. Not to say it doesn't have practical value however. It just depends what you want to do with it. It CAN do a lot of the same things that your generic Bridgeport mill can and likely is at least a little more ridged, but it's not going to do it all.
 

Fitzy440

Plastic
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Thanks MB! I am just getting into machining so to start; drilling holes, making slots, beveling, and surface machining?


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Fitzy440

Plastic
Joined
Nov 6, 2021
Most of the mill/drill bits I go with the machine look to be maybe MT1 or 2…


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M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Thanks MB! I am just getting into machining so to start; drilling holes, making slots, beveling, and surface machining?


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It's drilling capacity I think will be limited to how functional of a quill it has (kinda hard to see how it works). The idea of milling AND drilling AND other 2 or 3 axis cutting operations all being performed on one machine is a more modern philosophy, with the old school method being your mill was for milling and drill press was for drilling.

Old and Slow machines can work a lot of the same materials as the more modern ones, but the lack of higher speeds rules out most carbide work and hardened material cutting. The book the John linked will get you going on the right track.
 

johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
To give an idea of the antiquity - in my catalog collection, the last time B&S mill tooling - such as the shell mill holder in your hand - was advertised is in the 1942 Scully Jones catalog of 1942 :D. This is a large hard bound book.

Milling cutters that "appear" to have MT2 shanks are very likely B&S 7

Handy dandy taper info here

Standard Tapers

ph
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Thank you John. Where could I find more tooling for it or some service/operation manuals?


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This is Vintage Machinery's list of all the pubs they have on B & S. If you click on "pub date" at the head of column the pubs will line up chronologically:
Brown & Sharpe Mfg. Co. - Publication Reprints | VintageMachinery.org

B & S made excellent tools and machines. Probably the main issue would be their proprietary tapers on tooling. The industry as whole adopted other tapers, so finding B & S taper tools may not be as easy to find. When looking at specs on the machine. Look for "spindle taper" on milling machines to know what type taper tooling you need.
 








 
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