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New to me 1997 Kitamura Mycenter 2x

Scott.Damman

Plastic
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
Hi all, recently got a Mycenter 2x and having a hard time getting axis movement after the machine move.

Couple questions for the Kitamura experts out there. I am able to get servos on and have no alarms on the Yasnac display. I was able to jog axis for a short time then got flashing alarm next to power indicator.

Does anyone have a list of alarms that show on the 3 digit readout (display shared with tool number). I am currently getting alarm 005 which I think is preventing movement.

What air pressure should the 2 regulators be set to? Looking to confirm I have the right air pressure. Mine has a pressure switch after the regulator should this switch show a red light during normal operation?

Thanks for the help.
 
What controller does the machine have? If the controller is an i80 which I think was common on those machines, alarm 005 is due to a thermal overload tripping. Go into the electrical cabinet and see if any of them need to be reset, and that should clear the alarm, if it keeps tripping you might have another issue. But they do allow for a little adjustment for when they should trip, so you could try that, too.
 
A customer has 5 Kitimuras and he has had me apply new Turcite on 3 of the machines. That could be your issue. The original Turcite is loose especially near the oil grooves and edges where the epoxy determinated.
You can Google "Richard King Scraping Kitimura headstock Practical Machinist" and see the rebuilding and lousy worn Turcite.
 
What controller does the machine have? If the controller is an i80 which I think was common on those machines, alarm 005 is due to a thermal overload tripping. Go into the electrical cabinet and see if any of them need to be reset, and that should clear the alarm, if it keeps tripping you might have another issue. But they do allow for a little adjustment for when they should trip, so you could try that, too.
Thanks for the quick reply. Yes i80. I looked through the cabinet and found no thermal overloads tripped. There are 4 I found on the door but non of them were tripped. Now showing 002 alarm?

It is also cycling the carousel locating pin. I took the cover off and there are sensors on the side of the pneumatic cylinder. These are lighting up. Maybe something out of whack in the tool changer. Thoughts on what would cause that pin to cycle in and out?

Thanks
 
There are no alerms on th
Thanks for the quick reply. Yes i80. I looked through the cabinet and found no thermal overloads tripped. There are 4 I found on the door but non of them were tripped. Now showing 002 alarm?

It is also cycling the carousel locating pin. I took the cover off and there are sensors on the side of the pneumatic cylinder. These are lighting up. Maybe something out of whack in the tool changer. Thoughts on what would cause that pin to cycle in and out?

Thanks
It is out of position. I have some PDFs I can send you care of Kitamura when I get to my computer in an hour. There should at least be a 1099 alarm on the alarms page, as well as 2134-6 for the absolute encoders.
 
I have a 2001 with a J300 and all documentation so may be able to help when I am in my shop. 1099 just tells you there is an alarm. The air pressures are 60 psi for the machine and spindle oiler.
 
Since you say these troubles started after a move, I have to ask if you properly checked phase rotation of the incoming power. Keep in mind that servo and spindle drives are not phase sensitive. You have to check a line powered three phase motor.
 
Since you say these troubles started after a move, I have to ask if you properly checked phase rotation of the incoming power. Keep in mind that servo and spindle drives are not phase sensitive. You have to check a line powered three phase motor.
Good question, I was told by the previous owner I could confirm the correct phase if I looked at the spindle chiller. He said if the phase was wrong the chiller would alarm. I did confirm this while trouble shooting by swapping wires and I got an alarm on the chiller. I switched them back so I think it is wired in the correct phase.
 
There are no alerms on th

It is out of position. I have some PDFs I can send you care of Kitamura when I get to my computer in an hour. There should at least be a 1099 alarm on the alarms page, as well as 2134-6 for the absolute encoders.
Thank you, whatever info you can share will be helpful.

Looking over the took changer, in this picture is the tool changer arm out of position? This prox is lit up when machine is on. Thinking maybe this prox detects overtravel of the arm? If this is the case, its odd to me that I was able to jog the machine for a short while. Specifically I pulled Z up off the shipping blocks but have not been able to move anything since. Maybe your pdf will show how to get this back into place?
IMG_6936.jpg

BTW - no alarms present on the I80 screen. Just the alarms showing up on the 3 digit display.
 
The arm is in place and the prox sensor is saying so. If it isn't lit then you won't be doing anything. If the turret moves when the pin goes in or out it is out of position. The way I get the turret out of position is to start a program and the machine grabs the wrong tool because I am not running the right program or I am in the wrong part so I quickly hit feed hold and reset while the turret is spinning to the next tool, and viola! the turret doesn't know where it is. After hitting feed hold make sure the turret isn't moving before hitting reset. If the tool pot is down pull the tool holder out before going forward. When the machine raises the pot it does it so fast it will throw the tool holder out and the tool holder will bounce around the enclosure several times. The reset procedure takes about 5 minutes when you know what you are doing.

Kitamura alarm #5 is for thermal relays as stated earlier. I would get them when my lube pump motor was dying. You should have alarms on your alarm page screen. When Kitamura alarm #5 was present there should have been a Yasnac alarm #1099, as that is the alarm that tells you there is an alarm.

PM me your email address and I will send you what I have. The Kitamura tech said I could share the documents with others but I doubt they want me posting their documents to be freely available on the internet. Keep in mind all of this is for a 2001 Mycerter 1 with a J300 control. But as far as I know, the stuff you are dealing with was the same with the i80 controls.
 
Since you say these troubles started after a move, I have to ask if you properly checked phase rotation of the incoming power. Keep in mind that servo and spindle drives are not phase sensitive. You have to check a line powered three phase motor.
Or simply use a rotation meter! Should be standard practice with any 3P install.

What is machine being powered with? Real 3 phase, or?
 
I just emailed you the stuff I have. You need to download all of the manuals Yasnac has on their website. These are helpful but a lot depends on how Kitamura integrated the controls to their machines so you need their documentation too. Kitamura fully supports their old machines with free national techs by phone at no charge, they are kind of a gold standard in my book for this.
 
Or simply use a rotation meter! Should be standard practice with any 3P install.

What is machine being powered with? Real 3 phase, or?
Yeah thinking I should get a rotation meter they are pretty low cost now.

Its being powered off a rotary. I have the high leg of the rotary going to the T terminal.

I still cant get past the 005 (thermal relay) alarm, to confirm I am looking for the right thing. This is what I think of when someone says thermal relay. Are these them? As far as I can tell none of them are tripped and I see no others in the cabinet. Are there others elsewhere on the machine?
IMG_6940.jpg


@DavidScott - the carousel (or turret) does not move when the pin is going in and out. The pin hole seems to be in the correct location. The pin just goes in then relays and solenoids click and pull the pin out. Something else in the logic is telling the pin to retract. Other thoughts on this?

Thanks for the help!
 
Those look like the relays to me, and in the right spot for my machine. Do they all activate when you power the machine up? No idea about the pin, my only experience with the magazine is when I hit reset at the wrong time.

There have to be some Yasnac side alarms.
 
Yeah thinking I should get a rotation meter they are pretty low cost now.

Its being powered off a rotary. I have the high leg of the rotary going to the T terminal.

I still cant get past the 005 (thermal relay) alarm, to confirm I am looking for the right thing. This is what I think of when someone says thermal relay. Are these them? As far as I can tell none of them are tripped and I see no others in the cabinet. Are there others elsewhere on the machine?
View attachment 419354


@DavidScott - the carousel (or turret) does not move when the pin is going in and out. The pin hole seems to be in the correct location. The pin just goes in then relays and solenoids click and pull the pin out. Something else in the logic is telling the pin to retract. Other thoughts on this?

Thanks for the help!
Oh boy. Yeah those are thermals, and yeah the use of an RPC matters.. Like a broken record. No one here understand voltage balance, current, etc.
I don't force the horse to drink anymore, just take them to the place. Go look up voltage balance and rotation. Get those things right as rain before you proceed further. If you turn up those thermals, you are asking for bigger bills. You are about to learn things in electrics.
 
Oh boy. Yeah those are thermals, and yeah the use of an RPC matters.. Like a broken record. No one here understand voltage balance, current, etc.
I don't force the horse to drink anymore, just take them to the place. Go look up voltage balance and rotation. Get those things right as rain before you proceed further. If you turn up those thermals, you are asking for bigger bills. You are about to learn things in electrics.
I don’t fully understand the comment. I am not suggesting adjusting the thermal overloads. I was merely confirming what I was looking at aligned with what another user suggested looking into. I suggested nothing about voltage balance nor did I ask any questions. I said the high leg (or generated leg) of the rotary was on the T terminal on the input. Which I confirmed with Kitamura tech before hooking up. I apologize if I somehow offended you just honestly looking for whatever help I can.
 
I don’t fully understand the comment. I am not suggesting adjusting the thermal overloads. I was merely confirming what I was looking at aligned with what another user suggested looking into. I suggested nothing about voltage balance nor did I ask any questions. I said the high leg (or generated leg) of the rotary was on the T terminal on the input. Which I confirmed with Kitamura tech before hooking up. I apologize if I somehow offended you just honestly looking for whatever help I can.
No insult to you whatsoever. Just saying that the broken record is "I hooked up my RPC so life is good", followed by "I have this problem". The very first things you do in any install (pro) is confirm phase rotation, voltage average, and voltage balance.

You wanna know how many times I've seen a thermal trip out with an RPC?

I recommend you get your power checked with a comb before you go any further.
 
No insult to you whatsoever. Just saying that the broken record is "I hooked up my RPC so life is good", followed by "I have this problem". The very first things you do in any install (pro) is confirm phase rotation, voltage average, and voltage balance.

You wanna know how many times I've seen a thermal trip out with an RPC?

I recommend you get your power checked with a comb before you go any further.
Got it, since I dont know as much about balancing phase converters here are my measurements if youre willing to look. These seem acceptable based on what I know.

Rotary - American Rotary AD30 - 30HP rotary phase converter
Voltages were measured with a fluke handheld but I could hook a scope up if more details are needed.
L1 - L2 - 243.1
L1 - L3 - 242.3
L2 - L3 - 242.9
L1 - Ground - 121.8
L2 - Ground - 121.4
L3 - Ground - 212.8

The problem with all this though is none of the thermals are tripped. So I think I have something else to chase down.

Thanks for the help
 
Those numbers are better than most utility numbers and I will confirm a total non-issue right now, but you will see those change as you power up and run the machine. One of the issues with RPCs.

But I will confirm balance is not a concern, or the OL issue.

When in doubt, trip it out, and try again. Meaning, trip switches and overloads and reset them. That strikes new contacts and many times fixes minor issues.

You did not confirm rotation but I guess if you can confirm something like the coolant pump blows the spray, that is good enough at this point.

An OL event, is many times not even that. BS Japan stuff. Many times means "we sent power for it to do something, but we detected no movement", so think sensors.
 
Those numbers are better than most utility numbers and I will confirm a total non-issue right now, but you will see those change as you power up and run the machine. One of the issues with RPCs.

But I will confirm balance is not a concern, or the OL issue.

When in doubt, trip it out, and try again. Meaning, trip switches and overloads and reset them. That strikes new contacts and many times fixes minor issues.

You did not confirm rotation but I guess if you can confirm something like the coolant pump blows the spray, that is good enough at this point.

An OL event, is many times not even that. BS Japan stuff. Many times means "we sent power for it to do something, but we detected no movement", so think sensors.
Thanks for the reply and confirming the numbers. I figured I will get some voltage imbalance once I have spindle running etc. I will keep an eye on how balanced things stay.

I ordered a phase rotation meter. Comes tomorrow (thanks Amazon!) so I will still confirm rotation.

I will start going through other peripheral equipment and see if there are any issues. Lube pump, spindle oiler, chiller, etc.

Thanks again
 








 
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