Norton surface grinder question

[btm]

I recently purchased a Norton 6 x 18 hydraulic surface grinder. It is the older style, with the base that flares out at the bottom. I beleive the machine was produced in the '50's.

When I first looked at this grinder, I thought it had a plain bearing spindle, because there is an oil cup on top of the spindle housing. However, the spindle motor is mounted in-line with the spindle. I've never seen a plain bearing grinder with the spindle motor mounted in line with the spindle. Typically, the motor is mounted lower on the machine with the spindle being belt driven.
In addition, the motor has the name "Pope" cast into the housing. Also, the cap at the front end of the spindle is stamped "Pope". I know Pope made ball bearing spindles, but I'm not sure if they made a plain bearing spindle.
I have some reprints of Norton parts diagrams, but nothing that shows this exact type of spindle.

My concern is, I don't know how or what to use for spindle lubrication on this particular grinder until I determine what type of spindle it has. I really didn't want to start tearing it apart and screw it up.

Does anyone else have a grinder like this?
Also, I would like to get some manuals for this machine. I would be willing to pay someone for copying any manuals they may have.


Thanks
btm

 

[Professor]

Just because a spindle has an oil cup, it doesn't mean it has plain bearings. Here is a picture of an Ex-Cel-O spindle in an old WWII Reid surface grinder. It has an oil cup but still sports double row ball bearings at either end of the spindle.

Unlike a plain bearing which consumes a lot of oil, these bearings do not run in oil, only on a film of oil. In fact, if they were flooded so that they ran in the oil, they would get hot.

I use light spindle oil, setting the drip rate to once every minute or two. The oil drips down onto the rotating spindle which blasts the drop into a mist, effectively lubricating the bearings at either end.

 

[btm]

Professor,

Thanks for the info.
I'm assuming my spindle would need to be a ball beearing type assembly. Based on my limited experience with older grinders, a plain bearing spindle would need some means of adjusting the rear bearing. With an integral mounted motor, there would be no way to do this.

I'm still hoping to find someone that may have a similar spindle, with a copy of a parts diagram.


Thanks
btm

 

[sidecar580]

Your Norton surface grinder was available with several spindle options. The plain bearing spindle was in its own cartridge and was slid into the cast housing, and was oiled through the oil cup on the top. Two ball bearing spindles were offered.Belt driven and motorized. Both ball bearing spindles are sealed units. I have instruction and parts manuals.
JOHN

 

[btm]

Hi John,

I do have a copy of a norton manual that mentions the different spindle types. It matches what you just mentioned, but it really doesn't show a parts diagram for the spindles.

However, based on the limited info in the manual, the spindle I have doesn't match any of them. As I mentioned, it has an oil cup, but an integral motor. The plain bearing type spindles mentioned in my manual, don't show any type of integral motor mounting. They were all belt drive. However, my spindle doesn't appear to be a retrofit. It appears to be a factory install.

I'll take some photos later today and post them here. I seen on your website that you have experience with Norton grinders. Maybe you can figure out what it is based on the photos.


Thanks
btm

 

[btm]

Here's a couple photos. I removed some of the covers and gaurds. These show the motor location and the oil cup.

I'm confused about the type of spindle due to the fact that it appears to be a ball bearing type unit, but it has an oil cup. According to the info I have, the ball bearing units offered by Norton are sealed.
I thought I would post these photos to see if anyone has a similar grinder, or at least, a similar pope spindle.

 

[Jim Page]

Any idea how much this Norton weighs?
I am going to be moving it fairly soon.

Thanks,
Jim Page

 

[gbent]

I have books on that grinder but they do not list the weight. The later model weighs about 2500# (6 x 18 hydraulic).

 

[johnoder]

The WW2 era catalog with a photo "Norton Plant Blacked Out" gives 2000 for horizontal and 2100 for vertical. Hard bronze or ball bearing spindle bearings were optional. Hand or hydraulic feed. Wet or dry grinding. Pub is dated 12/41.

John Oder

 

[Jim Page]

Thanks John, That helps a bunch,

I'm looking forward to picking it up and getting it ready for shop use.

Jim Page

 

[houdini969]

Norton surface grinder

try this

http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/item/norton-6x18-hyrdraulic-surface-grinder-687-manual/

 

[Jim Page]

try this

http://www.ozarkwoodworker.com/item/norton-6x18-hyrdraulic-surface-grinder-687-manual/

Thanks!

Jim

 

[stannp368]

Norton surface grinder

This is probably a ball bearing spindle as many of these had oil cups & were not permanently sealed. I always followed the advice of my former instructor when I was an apprentice toolmaker & use automatic transmission oil for spindle lubrication. This has worked very well w/ me over the years w/ lathe spindles or grinding spindles

 

[sawz5]

i found a norton like that in the junk yard, went and weighed it out at 1800lbs. by the way if you haul it on a ford ranger pick up you might break the springs. (experience talking)

 

[duckman]

grinder

I've worked on Nortons before that had a Pope spindle and the oil cup threw me off, cleaned around it carefully and removed the oil cup and found that it was cartridge type spindle and the oil cup did not do any thing because the spindle housing did not have hole in it for the oil to go into. Did some work for Pope before they closed and asked how much a cartridge spindle for my grinder was and was taken into the spares room thats where the loaner spindles were kept and he asked me which spindle would fit my grinder, pointed one out, he said OK and I went back to fixing the machine that I was working, when I finished that day there was a box waiting for me in shipping, yes it was replacement spindle for my grinder. My old grinder was an Abrasives grinder which I got for taking away, some body had replaced the spindle bearings with standard ball bearings that why they were getting rid of it, the only problem was they kept the chuck, asked how much the wanted for the chuck and was told its free if I fix there BRPT all it needed was a couple of bearings and about 3 hours work. Boy free is nice, the machine needed some work, like a new spindle, we scraped in all the ways added a one shot lube system, put in the Pope, ground the chuck and could hold .0002 any place on the chuck, chuck size was 8 X 24. when I closed my shop had no place to keep it so sold it for $750.00.

 

[djcaswel]

Norton surface grinder wipers

My Norton surface grinder leaks oil from the ways. The wipers seem to be just flat and V shaped rubber sheet. I have cut new ones but they still leak (and tear). Does anyone have suggestion for wiper material or suppliers?

 

[Richard King]

On another forum a fellow is going to try to rebuild his Pope spindle . It's aRied surface Grinder. Does anyone have a drawing or photo's of a Pope Spindle with the tapered bore ball bearing style. I know this is an old thread and we have been discussing it for years. I was hoping someone has been successful. Carbide Bob of Mich Buck what would you say? Rich