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O.T.~ Full Floating type axle quest.

JoeE.

Titanium
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Location
Kansas
Long story short, I've got this cobbled together Hough Payloader. Cobbled together as in it's a circa '53 loader with 62 Chevy 235" 6 cyl (instead of original Hercules engine), and the driving axle is a 1942~1946 era Chevy 1-1/2 or 2 ton truck dual wheel axle (11,000# capacity, I've learned) with 20" wheels with a 10 lug bolt pattern. As it sets, it doesn't have duals on it, just singles.

I don't know if this thing has ever actually moved under it's own power, or not.

I've sorted out many problems with this thing and it's finally down to getting some hydraulic brakes going so I can actually move it around without disaster befalling me.

The hubs have 8 holes to bolt the axle flange to. On both sides, all 8 bolts have sheared off inside the housing!

capture..jpg

To overcome this problem, the axle flanges were welded to the hub.

I had to get this axle out in order to remove the brake drum so I could work on the brakes. So, I used a cut-off wheel and cut through the circumferential weld between flange and hub, on both sides.

Why I'm on a quest looking for an axle for this thing....

Evidently, one of the original axles was broken at some point in history and they couldn't find an exact replacement. So, they found another axle that had the right number of splines (16), was the right diameter on both ends, and nearly the right length~ but the flange face was about ¾" larger in diameter than the original. This photo shows it before I cut the weld.

captur..jpg


The axle shaft is about an inch too short... it engages the splines in the differential about 1-1/2"~about ¾" less than the original, which is good enough for this thing.

I've found most of this information on the web all by luck. All I had to go by was the casting number on the brake wheel cylinder after I got the hub off.

capture.........jpg

captur.jpg

That's where I finally started finding info about what that fit, and what year trucks they were in, and what size truck they were used in. It's an 11,000 pound capacity axle.

Anyhow... now I'm sending out feelers to see if this same axle shaft may have been used in anything else that might be a little easier to find. A friend of mine here in town... his dad has an old salvage yard with lots of old vehicles.. still, in this day and age. He said he thinks there are two old mid 40's big Chevy's out there. His dad's got cancer real bad, but is still working, and my friend says that he's got it in his head that he's gonna just smash all this stuff when scrap starts back up.. he's done. So, I need to strike while the iron is hot!

After I get the drums all off, I'll try to remove the broken off studs in the hubs, and I can bolt the good original axle back on the one side.. and with luck I'll find a correct axle to replace their replacement.

Here are the correct axle dimensions~ O.A.L. (37.5") inner flange face to end of splines, dia. of axle at flange(1.625"), minor and major dimensions of splined(16 splines)end (1.562" & 1.720"), and flange/hub O.D. is 4-5/8".

If I can't find a correct axle, I'll just turn down the OD of the existing axle and, I guess, weld it back on. It had 2 studs bolting it to the hub, but someone had drilled the holes in the flange to do that... this flange had a 4 bolt pattern... nowhere near the 8 it needs, and on a whole different diameter. Hard telling what it came off of.

Any comments or suggestions on what to do about this axle? Where I may look to find axles that would interchange.

P.S.... this is a 2 speed truck rear end, if that makes any difference.
 
Long story short, I've got this cobbled together Hough Payloader. Cobbled together as in it's a circa '53 loader with 62 Chevy 235" 6 cyl (instead of original Hercules engine), and the driving axle is a 1942~1946 era Chevy 1-1/2 or 2 ton truck dual wheel axle (11,000# capacity, I've learned) with 20" wheels with a 10 lug bolt pattern. As it sets, it doesn't have duals on it, just singles.

I don't know if this thing has ever actually moved under it's own power, or not.

I've sorted out many problems with this thing and it's finally down to getting some hydraulic brakes going so I can actually move it around without disaster befalling me.

The hubs have 8 holes to bolt the axle flange to. On both sides, all 8 bolts have sheared off inside the housing!

View attachment 312720

To overcome this problem, the axle flanges were welded to the hub.

I had to get this axle out in order to remove the brake drum so I could work on the brakes. So, I used a cut-off wheel and cut through the circumferential weld between flange and hub, on both sides.

Why I'm on a quest looking for an axle for this thing....

Evidently, one of the original axles was broken at some point in history and they couldn't find an exact replacement. So, they found another axle that had the right number of splines (16), was the right diameter on both ends, and nearly the right length~ but the flange face was about ¾" larger in diameter than the original. This photo shows it before I cut the weld.

View attachment 312727


The axle shaft is about an inch too short... it engages the splines in the differential about 1-1/2"~about ¾" less than the original, which is good enough for this thing.

I've found most of this information on the web all by luck. All I had to go by was the casting number on the brake wheel cylinder after I got the hub off.

View attachment 312724

View attachment 312725

That's where I finally started finding info about what that fit, and what year trucks they were in, and what size truck they were used in. It's an 11,000 pound capacity axle.

Anyhow... now I'm sending out feelers to see if this same axle shaft may have been used in anything else that might be a little easier to find. A friend of mine here in town... his dad has an old salvage yard with lots of old vehicles.. still, in this day and age. He said he thinks there are two old mid 40's big Chevy's out there. His dad's got cancer real bad, but is still working, and my friend says that he's got it in his head that he's gonna just smash all this stuff when scrap starts back up.. he's done. So, I need to strike while the iron is hot!

After I get the drums all off, I'll try to remove the broken off studs in the hubs, and I can bolt the good original axle back on the one side.. and with luck I'll find a correct axle to replace their replacement.

Here are the correct axle dimensions~ O.A.L. (37.5") inner flange face to end of splines, dia. of axle at flange(1.625"), minor and major dimensions of splined(16 splines)end (1.562" & 1.720"), and flange/hub O.D. is 4-5/8".

If I can't find a correct axle, I'll just turn down the OD of the existing axle and, I guess, weld it back on. It had 2 studs bolting it to the hub, but someone had drilled the holes in the flange to do that... this flange had a 4 bolt pattern... nowhere near the 8 it needs, and on a whole different diameter. Hard telling what it came off of.

Any comments or suggestions on what to do about this axle? Where I may look to find axles that would interchange.

P.S.... this is a 2 speed truck rear end, if that makes any difference.

Hate to rain on your parade but you probably should be waiting for the price of scrap to go up as well.
 
Is there a Hollander Interchange manual that your friend could let you borrow? Most junkyards have them.
Keep your chin and spirits up. Save this old girl from the crusher....
Good luck.
Tom
 
Looks like you are on a fix it right tight budget. There are several good axle manufacturing shops in the US that can make anything you want. Won't be cheap though, probably $400-500. One I have used several times is Moser in Indiana.
 
Near me is Smileys equipment. 518 634 2310. There are acres of old stuff, and, as we use the same post office, he is often shipping parts. Everything he has is made of gold in his eyes (maybe why he's smiling!) But if he has what you need...
 
When you see stuff like this ...think WW2 GMC6x6 "banjo "axle ......these axles and centres were the basis of many post war axle assys .....even seen one with a GMC centre and planetary reduction hubs on a 4x4 loader........the axles branded NAPCO....Incidentally ,my Hyster 6ton fork had problems like this ......I welded what ailed the axle shaft ,and drilled the hub to suit the new holes in the axle cap ,and used much bigger studs IIRC 9/16 as opposed to 3/8" studs.
 
Is there a Hollander Interchange manual that your friend could let you borrow? Most junkyards have them.
Keep your chin and spirits up. Save this old girl from the crusher....
Good luck.
Tom
why "Save from the crusher" ?
If that axle is pooched (and having been rewelded) how much other stuff is wrong with the machine as well ?
 
Price of entire axle assembly from junkyard: 400 bucks
price of one axle removed from that rear axle assembly: 450 bucks

Or so it would be if I was grand poohbah of scrapyards
 
why "Save from the crusher" ?
If that axle is pooched (and having been rewelded) how much other stuff is wrong with the machine as well ?

What are you doing on this thread? No spammers to attack here ;)

But, anyway, the axle shaft itself hasn't been welded... it wasn't broke...the axle cap/flange/mounting face was welded to the wheel hub because they couldn't bolt it
to the hub.

If this axle shaft was broken and wasn't usable it would be a different story.. I would look for a different rear end.

How much other stuff is wrong with the machine?

You should see what I've dealt with so far.

Just like the guys who take an old car/truck out of a field that has tree's growing up through the floor boards and up through the windshield hole and fix them up.. it's just what we do.

All I'm doing is getting this machine to run, make an adapter to hold forklift forks with the bucket... to be able to use it as an all terrain forklift at my shop. My equally ancient Clark is incapable of going off road, and I've got a boiler I need to get into the shop to replace some rusted out areas~ and it's setting on railroad ties out in the dirt...out of the Clark's reach.
 
What are you doing on this thread? No spammers to attack here ;)

But, anyway, the axle shaft itself hasn't been welded... it wasn't broke...the axle cap/flange/mounting face was welded to the wheel hub because they couldn't bolt it
to the hub.

If this axle shaft was broken and wasn't usable it would be a different story.. I would look for a different rear end.

How much other stuff is wrong with the machine?

You should see what I've dealt with so far.

Just like the guys who take an old car/truck out of a field that has tree's growing up through the floor boards and up through the windshield hole and fix them up.. it's just what we do.

Your pictures show the axleshaft flange bolts sheared off under the axle that was welded on. That sure seems indicative of abuse, neglect and more damage up stream.

In my opinion it would be much wiser to figure out what gear ratio you are needing and source a complete axle with wheels and tires in good shape for a few hundred bucks.

Otherwise I think your time would be better spent cobbling what you have together than trying to locate an axleshaft that old.

I would probably start by removing all the broken junk from the hubs. If they aren't salvageable then what's the point of making an axle?

Then I would cut the flange off the old axleshaft and rough turn up a new flange from 4140 or T1 with extension and weld prep. I would preheat to 400 and weld the old axle to the new flange with 7018 or 8018. Maybe just buzz it together with 70 series MIG wire. Whatever you feel like. Then turn the whole works true and poke your new bolt holes through the flange as you see fit.
 
I d just get another axle from an old truck,with tyres on it.......My #1 preference would be for something with hub reduction,like a MAN,Benz,Leyland ,or Renault-Mack ,but any heavy axle would do .....The axle you have looks like the common Lend Lease 3 ton Chev.....Ive bought whole trucks just for the diff centre,which is a higher ratio than the GMC 6x6,and can be used to speed up a GMC.......But there are all these young ijits buying up old trucks for crazy money.,and often just scrapping the mechanicals.
 
JoeE,

Back in my salad days I ran a Payloader at a foundry where I worked nights after school. I will say that any effort on your part to restore yours will be rewarded. Very handy, stout and dependable.

Good luck to you with this.

Bob....not the cat.
 
IIRC the guys on Pirate 4x4 will give good money for that axle. IRC it's an Eaton HO72, which is the great grand daddy of the modern GMC 14-bolt. And yes, some parts still swap. Nearest modern equiv. would be the "stubby" dually axle under the 3500 GMC tow trucks. The guys on Pirate 4x4 used to swap parts in those things, but the big problem was paying to have the shafts re-splined. (machinists can make good money off the 4x4 guys...)

EDIT to add: they ran those axles under the C50 C60 stake-bed trucks (school bus chassis...) up thru the 1970's so it shouldn't be too hard to find one.
 
Well, we don't know what model you have but Hough had a planetary axle in 1955 for the larger models , at least. It appears that you are fucking around with a 60+ year old POS, not to preserve history but to make money. Give it up. It is not and was never meant to be a fork lift. It sucked as a dirt mover. It was just a bit faster and more novel than other 1955 dirt movers so it sold for a couple of years before others introduced 4 wheel drive articulated loaders and it was history.
 
Does it matter that it is a floating axle as mentioned in the title? Would a non floating axle work as well in this application.
Bil lD.
 
IIRC the guys on Pirate 4x4 will give good money for that axle. IRC it's an Eaton HO72, which is the great grand daddy of the modern GMC 14-bolt. And yes, some parts still swap. Nearest modern equiv. would be the "stubby" dually axle under the 3500 GMC tow trucks. The guys on Pirate 4x4 used to swap parts in those things, but the big problem was paying to have the shafts re-splined. (machinists can make good money off the 4x4 guys...)

EDIT to add: they ran those axles under the C50 C60 stake-bed trucks (school bus chassis...) up thru the 1970's so it shouldn't be too hard to find one.

Hopefully that axle is heavier than an HO72 Eaton. If that's all it is he should definitely upgrade.

The HO72 isn't really sought after nor valuable. A Pumpkin with 4.10 gears from a later pickup is worth a few hundred bucks to an early pickup owner sometimes. Other than that they go in the scrap bin. Nobody buys them. The HO72 uses a pinion bearing that is unobtanium. That's a setback for anyone basing a build around that axle.

Offroad guys don't pay machinists for much at all. Engine builders and diff setup guys make money off them and that's about it.

BTW Eaton HO72 and 14 bolt use the same spider gears/lockers/axleshafts. Cutting axle splines is never really required because you can swap spiders/lockers/axleshafts.

It's quite common to find a cheap/free HO72 Eaton with the crudest of early spline Detroit lockers. That detroit drops right in a 14 bolt if you run 67-72 Chev axleshafts.
 








 
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