Obtaining carbide inserts for hand scraping

[max.levesque]

There seems to be a consensus that one can't go wrong with a Sandvik carbide inserts, so I started looking for them, and I could only find them for sale in 5 packs.

As a hobbyist, there is no way I will need that many, googling on the subject, it appears that I'm not the first one trying to obtain single inserts, but I couldn't find a seller.

Are there other options ?

 

[EmGo]

Are there other options ?

SEARCH.

Bakeafish already answered that.

 

[Luke Rickert]

There seems to be a consensus that one can't go wrong with a Sandvik carbide inserts, so I started looking for them, and I could only find them for sale in 5 packs.

As a hobbyist, there is no way I will need that many, googling on the subject, it appears that I'm not the first one trying to obtain single inserts, but I couldn't find a seller.

Are there other options ?

While they may not be the ideal carbide compound it works ok to grind large milling inserts into the desired shape. You just need to grind the surfaces and sliver solder them onto a blade and off you go. For the hobbyist getting started it is good to remember much scraping was done with carbon steel blades, so even the worst carbide will be much better than that

You can also look on ebay etc and find used Biax blades which are a good way to get going provided there is some meat left on them. My understanding is biax uses Sandvik inserts cut in half to make their blades but that could just be a rumor. (at the price of them I should hope they use only the best)

Or buy 5 Sandvik inserts and sell a couple extras

Luke

 

[sfriedberg]

The Sandvik scraper inserts/bits are nice, but I often find them unnecessarily large and occasionally a bit awkward/clunky. But if you don't want to buy a full pack of Sandvik scrapers nor pay the price for actual Biax blades, there are several alternatives.
If you rummage around in an industrial tooling catalog, you can buy carbide strips. If you have a way to cut a longer ground carbide strip to length (diamond plated cutting wheel for a Dremel is probably the cheapest way to go), you can make either narrow or wide tips.These silver solder (silver braze) very nicely to a steel blade blank. In fact, that's how the Biax blades are made. So you can make your own to whatever width and radius you like.

 

[Mark Rand]

As the others have said, silver solder/silver braze carbide strip to a bit of flat steel bar of the right dimensions. Sandvik blades are A10 carbide when I looked that up when making my own, it appears to be common-or-garden C2. They're prettily ground, but the shape is far from ideal. So you end up having to grind them to shape anyway.
MSC and similar sell carbide tooling blanks in various rectangular sizes and you'll find ones that are suitable to be quite cheap. Solder them on to the steel carrier before forming them to shape, but grind the joint face clean before soldering if the ones you get are 'black' rather than 'bright'

 

[max.levesque]

As the others have said, silver solder/silver braze carbide strip to a bit of flat steel bar of the right dimensions. Sandvik blades are A10 carbide when I looked that up when making my own, it appears to be common-or-garden C2. They're prettily ground, but the shape is far from ideal. So you end up having to grind them to shape anyway.
MSC and similar sell carbide tooling blanks in various rectangular sizes and you'll find ones that are suitable to be quite cheap. Solder them on to the steel carrier before forming them to shape, but grind the joint face clean before soldering if the ones you get are 'black' rather than 'bright'

I searched all over with terms like carbide blate, a10, h10, etc, and the closest I have found are these:

https://www.amazon.ca/Double-Edged-Reversible-Replacement-50X12X1-5mm-Hand-Held/dp/B07RL5CDW6/ref=sr_1_4_sspa?crid=1Z2PI979QLM75&keywords=carbide%2Bblade&qid=1693262861&sprefix=carbide%2Bblade%2B%2Caps%2C108&sr=8-4-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1

The edges are not right for scraping, so they would require grinding, but will they work ?

 

[Paolo_MD]

1.5 mm (.059") thick seem a little too thin to me... It is true that carbide is rather rigid and, perhaps, even strong enough to withstand the pressure of regular scraping. Worst case scenario, you can silver-braze two blades together to double the overall thickness.
The price seems decent. Possibly, a lot of waste due to the holes, but still plenty of material to play with.

Paolo

 

[max.levesque]

1.5 mm (.059") thick seem a little too thin to me... It is true that carbide is rather rigid and, perhaps, even strong enough to withstand the pressure of regular scraping. Worst case scenario, you can silver-braze two blades together to double the overall thickness.
The price seems decent. Possibly, a lot of waste due to the holes, but still plenty of material to play with.

Paolo

I looked for thicker blades, with no success, perhaps I'm not searching with the best keywords....

 

[Bakafish]

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/scraping-flat.415846/post-4103927

2.5mm thick for what it's worth. This grade of carbide is extremely strong.

 

[sfriedberg]

I looked for thicker blades, with no success, perhaps I'm not searching with the best keywords....

Try here at Travers for long lengths, or here at KBC Tools for short lengths and here for long lengths. The KBC online catalog isn't as convenient as it could be, you will have to open up the "[+] More Info" on those item listings to get the dimensions for each item.

 

[CarbideBob]

If you are going to grind the radius out front yourself ask a friendly carbide insert fabricator.
Likely they will have lots of scrap pieces collecting dust that can be brazed on.
If you buy STB style they usually are not ground on thickness yet.
Standard thickness will be .125, .1875, .250 after grind.
Also of note is that Sanvik stuff will have a 4rms or polished top and bottom to give you better edge quality.

 

[max.levesque]

Try here at Travers for long lengths, or here at KBC Tools for short lengths and here for long lengths. The KBC online catalog isn't as convenient as it could be, you will have to open up the "[+] More Info" on those item listings to get the dimensions for each item.

Thanks ! That is sooo helpful !

 

[max.levesque]

If you are going to grind the radius out front yourself ask a friendly carbide insert fabricator.
Likely they will have lots of scrap pieces collecting dust that can be brazed on.

How does one go about to find friendly carbide insert fabricators ? ;-)

If you buy STB style they usually are not ground on thickness yet.

Pardon my ignorance, what is STB style ?

Standard thickness will be .125, .1875, .250 after grind.
Also of note is that Sanvik stuff will have a 4rms or polished top and bottom to give you better edge quality.

If I get a carbide blank that isn't polished, is it a good idea to polish it myself ? I suppose I will need lapping stones ?
I suppose in the end it might be easier to just get the sandvik inserts...

 

[EmGo]

Thanks ! That is sooo helpful !

As Bakeafish pointed out, you can get individual blades for what, $35 ? And maybe $10 shipping ? Hang on, I gotta go take out a loan.

 

[Bakafish]

If I get a carbide blank that isn't polished, is it a good idea to polish it myself ? I suppose I will need lapping stones ?
I suppose in the end it might be easier to just get the sandvik inserts...

For clean scrapes and a long lasting edge, all cutting surfaces need to be polished. You need to lap it with diamonds, normal stones will not work. Avoiding this step will save you a lot of time, and time is always some amount of money. If you can, buy the pre-polished blades made of carbide intended for the purpose.

 

[max.levesque]

As Bakeafish pointed out, you can get individual blades for what, $35 ? And maybe $10 shipping ? Hang on, I gotta go take out a loan.

You mean here https://www.monotaro.com/g/00174851/ ?

Looks like the perfect insert, and great price, but I went on the site, couldn't understand the japanese, do they even ship to Canada ?

 

[jdbouchard60]

I bought some blades from this website.

https://www.hudsonmachinerepair.com/shop?Category=Machine+Scraping

Haven't used them yet but they look exactly like the BIAX blades and from what I can tell they are decently built.

 

[Bakafish]

You mean here https://www.monotaro.com/g/00174851/ ?

Looks like the perfect insert, and great price, but I went on the site, couldn't understand the japanese, do they even ship to Canada ?

They do not ship outside of Japan, but those part numbers are what is important. As I mentioned elsewhere, Tungaloy is sold globally, they have a Canadian website. It is quite possible that you can obtain these products in your area, I try to be helpful but there's a limit to how much research I'm willing to do. Getting foreign made things in Japan is much harder than the other way around, and yet I still manage to get what I need. Knowing something exists and has a name is half the battle as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Bakafish]

It took me like 2 minutes: https://webshop.tungaloycanada.com/catalogue/product/1000011731

 

[EmGo]

I try to be helpful but there's a limit to how much research I'm willing to do.

Aw c'mon, Bake ... the guy's a student or something, why don't you be a good guy and buy him a dozen and send them over ? Air mail ? And while you're at it, get him a blade holder and a couple books and maybe a video or two and sponsor him to one of Dick King's sessions ?

Don't forget the pizza and beer, people get hungry pushing those things ...