What's new
What's new

Old shop owner, new to forum, new to Mahos

  • Thread starter Thread starter Foxshop
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies 5
  • Views 3,277

Foxshop

Plastic
Joined
Mar 1, 2015
Hello all, first my user name is because my shop is located in Fox Alaska. I have been doing machine work for over 30 years. I have also worked in many associated industrial fields.

My shop is mostly populated with manual machines, we make complete machines, and short-run production parts, generally 6-200 parts per run. My website is ugly, but You can see some of our older machine builds at howeesmachine.com. The last time I programmed a CNC machine was 1979, of course that was punch tape & I remember the concept, but will need to learn the rest again. I have Solidworks, and Turbocad, and also Autocad 2000, but I do not use the Autocad, I mostly use Solidworks.
Summer before last I purchased 2 MH800C, 5 axis mills from York at European Machine Tools. Currently I machine mostly alloy steel 6150, 4140. I envision using one machine to work with the daily customer stuff, and the other for a rifle manufacturing project I have started, so it would make aluminum molds (for wax injection, to produce shell mold castings), and milling on smaller steel & bronze parts.

Both machines had old memory batteries, and hence lost the constants, I have the constants on paper, and CD. I have the factory operation/maintenance, and the electrical. One is a swivel/rotary table with 432-10 control serial #85354, the other is a rotary table with swivel head control is 532-600? or was it 6000? Serial #85700

My initial hold-up in getting the machines running, has been both the "pesky customers" wanting their parts, and also my desire to install the wiring the way I wanted it.

I currently have both machines hard wired to a 380v 150A 3ph transformer & sub panel with spots open for other machines, including an older Agie 200 wire-cut EDM that I bought a few years ago.

The shop is supplied by 2 meters, one 480v 3ph & the other 240 1ph. Shop is 5000 sq. ft. has a 5 ton overhead crane, good lighting, and is way too crowded.

After much searching, I found out about the N80 C not = 0 setting to allow setting other constants, and slowly loaded the constants in the 432 machine. Before loading the constants, the hydraulic pump would come on & not stay latched, after the constants, the hydraulics have latched on for up to 40 seconds twice. Currently the hydraulics will not come on at all, errors sometimes I01, and always I05. I do not know if this is coincidence, but just before the hydraulic quit coming on, I had manually closed the coolant pump contactor to test, and cycled all the breakers (I have seen these same style Siemens breakers cause problems with manual machines many times before). I find the Maho schematics hard to use, I do not have a full grasp of the hydraulic pump contactor coil chain of supply. I will study the diagrams more, but for now, I will start putting the constants into the 532 machine. The 532 is better for a current job as it has the larger table, but I thought the 432, with fewer constants might be easier to get going.

Does a true repair manual exist? Something that lists the full function/range of each of the constants would be nice?

What is the hydraulic pressure supposed to be?

I have purchased many new Cat40 holders, but I need to know what pull studs to buy? Neither machine has any of the blocking pins in the tool chain, nor the spindle.

Thank You, John Howe
 
Hello all, first my user name is because my shop is located in Fox Alaska. I have been doing machine work for over 30 years. I have also worked in many associated industrial fields.

My shop is mostly populated with manual machines, we make complete machines, and short-run production parts, generally 6-200 parts per run. My website is ugly, but You can see some of our older machine builds at howeesmachine.com. The last time I programmed a CNC machine was 1979, of course that was punch tape & I remember the concept, but will need to learn the rest again. I have Solidworks, and Turbocad, and also Autocad 2000, but I do not use the Autocad, I mostly use Solidworks.
Summer before last I purchased 2 MH800C, 5 axis mills from York at European Machine Tools. Currently I machine mostly alloy steel 6150, 4140. I envision using one machine to work with the daily customer stuff, and the other for a rifle manufacturing project I have started, so it would make aluminum molds (for wax injection, to produce shell mold castings), and milling on smaller steel & bronze parts.

Both machines had old memory batteries, and hence lost the constants, I have the constants on paper, and CD. I have the factory operation/maintenance, and the electrical. One is a swivel/rotary table with 432-10 control serial #85354, the other is a rotary table with swivel head control is 532-600? or was it 6000? Serial #85700

My initial hold-up in getting the machines running, has been both the "pesky customers" wanting their parts, and also my desire to install the wiring the way I wanted it.

I currently have both machines hard wired to a 380v 150A 3ph transformer & sub panel with spots open for other machines, including an older Agie 200 wire-cut EDM that I bought a few years ago.

The shop is supplied by 2 meters, one 480v 3ph & the other 240 1ph. Shop is 5000 sq. ft. has a 5 ton overhead crane, good lighting, and is way too crowded.

After much searching, I found out about the N80 C not = 0 setting to allow setting other constants, and slowly loaded the constants in the 432 machine. Before loading the constants, the hydraulic pump would come on & not stay latched, after the constants, the hydraulics have latched on for up to 40 seconds twice. Currently the hydraulics will not come on at all, errors sometimes I01, and always I05. I do not know if this is coincidence, but just before the hydraulic quit coming on, I had manually closed the coolant pump contactor to test, and cycled all the breakers (I have seen these same style Siemens breakers cause problems with manual machines many times before). I find the Maho schematics hard to use, I do not have a full grasp of the hydraulic pump contactor coil chain of supply. I will study the diagrams more, but for now, I will start putting the constants into the 532 machine. The 532 is better for a current job as it has the larger table, but I thought the 432, with fewer constants might be easier to get going.

Does a true repair manual exist? Something that lists the full function/range of each of the constants would be nice?

What is the hydraulic pressure supposed to be?

I have purchased many new Cat40 holders, but I need to know what pull studs to buy? Neither machine has any of the blocking pins in the tool chain, nor the spindle.

Thank You, John Howe

one suggestion for the constants, make sure they are all entered. often when starting from blank, you need to run through the list several times before they are all in there as new ones appear as you enter others - but only after exiting the list.

other than that, im not of much help right now. i dont have my list of errors handy. ill check it tonight. "i" are controller errors if i remember so you could just have a setting wrong.
 
Re: Pull-Studs

The pull studs you need for CAT40 tooling on a Maho are the same as used for a Fadal. Here's an eBay listing for some Shars pull studs for Fadal, but any Fadal pull stud will work.

SHARS 5pcs CAT40 Cat 40 Pull Stud Retention Knob Fadal Mazak Hurco Tree | eBay

If you end up with original DIN tooling (with the notch as normally required by a Maho), of course the Fadal pull studs don't work. The DIN tooling is metric. But as you said, you don't have the locking pins on your machine, so it doesn't matter. CAT40 tooling works fine.

Re: Loading Constants

Good to hear you have constants on CD. If for some reason you need to read your old paper tape to get the original constants, I have a paper tape reader and can help you. Chances are, however, your constants have been updated a little over the years so make sure you are loading the latest (probably from the CD). Keep a good log of any changes to your constants and why. This stuff is critical to the future of the machine.

I'll paste below my notes on a serial cable for the Maho. If you haven't gotten a serial cable working yet, this will be very helpful. You can also download this as a text file here (formatting is preserved better in the download):
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7441121/Maho/Maho_RS-232_Cable_and_V.24_Interface.txt

I also have a manual for the 532 that lists all constants and their possible ranges. It is for my MH1200C, but much of it should apply to the MH800C with 532 controller. I'll PM you a link to download. It's a large set of files so I don't want to post publicly. Anyone else needing such manuals, just PM me and I'll send you a link. There is also a PDF in there about how to load constants, but it applies to my machine which has a floppy drive. You will more likely need to load constants via RS-232.

Loading constants on the 432 is similar (similar settings) but the constants you have to manually enter first to get the serial port working are at a different location. Again, see my text file on the serial port cable below.


Re: Error codes

All error codes for your machine's LED display should be listed on your schematics.

All error codes that come up on the 532 controller display can be found at the back of my manual that lists the CNC 532 constants in general.

I01 means interface not on power - just mean that you have not properly powered up the machine (i.e. hydraulics are not up). This is always the case.

I05 means interface not on power - emergency stop from machine tool. Check all your E-stops, and make sure all the door interlocks are closed and not preventing the machine from coming up. Many people bypass these interlocks. It's a bad idea, but it can be done in several ways. Your LED display on the electrical cabinet should say what system or interlock is not properly closed.

The LED display, however, only shows the code while you hold down the start button. When you release the button, if the hydraulics didn't come up, then the display goes back to 56 or 54 or something like that. You may need someone to read the display for you while you hold the start button if you can't press the start button and see the display at the same time.

It can also be because of the main doors. They have to be opened, then closed (to cause the machine to see the doors were closed). Then press clear on the key pad to clear any errors (like the door open error which I think is I171). Then press and hold Clear. Press Start. Release clear, and release Start a few seconds later after giving the machine a moment to build pressure in the hydraulic system. If it fails to latch ON (hydraulics stay on), then you need to read the LED code on the electrical cabinet door to know why.

Regards,
Michael


=================================================================
My notes on serial cables for the Maho:
Or download here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7441121/Maho/Maho_RS-232_Cable_and_V.24_Interface.txt



Communication with my Maho MH1200C - CNC 532 controller
(much of this should be the same for the 432 controller)

Constants related to Serial Port
N901 through N910 - for DEV 1

Default Setup I have
9600, No parity, 1 stop bit, 8 Data bits, XON/XOFF
(9600,N,8,1, XON/XOFF)

Program format is (example):
%PM9501
N9501 (Program Title - shows up on Maho Directory Screen)
N10 G90
N20 G00 X100 Y100
....
N50 M30
<EOT> (needs an EOT to be sent at end so it knows the file is done)

Don't put a % at the end of the file - this will confuse the control and make
it think there is a new program starting. It gives an error and says "Writing"
in the program list. Must power cycle machine to get out of this state!!!

See 532 User's Manual, or Programmer's manual for explanation of PM9501 and N9501
allowed values. 532 controller allows N1 to N9999999, but for 432 compatibility,
there are some different rules if I care.



======================================================================================


Connecting a Maho to a PC.

================================
Maho Serial Cable

Serial comms with the machine is through the V.24 connector, usually
found on the Maho Electrical cabinet door.

This is how a cable should be wired to connect a PC to a Maho (CNC 432
or CNC 532 controller). Get a DE9 pin Female connector, and a DB25 Male
connector and wire it as follows.

PC COM Port Maho V.24 Connector
DE9 Female DB25 Male
1,6 DCD,DSR (in) 20 DSR (out)
2 RXD (in) 2 RXD (out)
3 TXD (out) 3 TXD (in)
4 DTR (out) 6,8 DTR,NC (in)
5 GND 7 GND
7 RTS (out) 5 RTS (in)
8 CTS (in) 4 CTS (out)
9 RI (in) NC

(out) = signal is driven by this pin
(in) = signal is received by this pin
NC = No Connect

(this is how the cable for my MH1200C was wired)

================================
For reference, here are the pinouts for the V.24 on the Maho and
the standard PC COM Port Pinout.

V.24 Interface on Maho Electrical Cabinet Door
DB25 Female Pinout
1 DB25 shell/shield (Chassis GND)
2 RXD
3 TXD
4 CTS
5 RTS
6 DTR
7 GND
20 DSR

Standard PC COM port pinout
DE9 Male Pinout
1 DCD
2 RXD
3 TXD
4 DTR
5 Signal GND
6 DSR
7 RTS
8 CTS
9 RI

Therefore...
Maho pinout is DCE configuration (like a telephone modem).
PC COM port is DTE configuration (like a terminal or computer).
Hence, Maho cable is NOT a null modem cable.
 
Not sure if they got attached, but I tried to add photos of the machines, 1 of both machines in the shop, each of the control panels, the tool chain, and the inside of the 532 machine.

Thanks to both Mike& Karl, I am closer to operation. I replaced the rod271 encoder that was causing it not to get reference position, I have all the constants loaded in both machines. I got the 532 Machine to operate a short test program. I had been trying to use the rs422 for communication, but none of the setting would work for me, I finally connected via the rs232 and downloaded from the machine. The big hold-up on this was that I did not know the panel midway of the power panel hinged to hide the rs232 connector, that was why I had been trying the rs422. Today however, the machine & I are unhappy again, Y-axis will not move. error Y04 shows on screen, Brake? drive?

The 432 machine is tripping the 1Q1 breaker, this is for the "fan / main drive" where is this fan?

Supposed to be getting a Emco cnc 7 axis Lathe delivered today, but it has not shown yet. I was hoping to get a mill going before the lathe arrived. We made the sprocket on our manual machines & have actually spent a lot of the last 3 months cutting 1.660 wide x 22" long internal keyways on our shaper
 

Attachments

  • P1010043.jpg
    P1010043.jpg
    93.2 KB · Views: 150
  • 063900-6.jpg
    063900-6.jpg
    64.1 KB · Views: 127
  • P1010038.jpg
    P1010038.jpg
    73.3 KB · Views: 248
  • 063900-7.jpg
    063900-7.jpg
    38.6 KB · Views: 139
  • P1010040.jpg
    P1010040.jpg
    63.7 KB · Views: 153
P1010001 - Copy.jpgForgot about the soft key, the Y04 is following error, which makes sense as it is not moving. Forgot about my other "new" lathe. 2 weeks ago we bought a Barnes #6 Peddle Lathe for display, I think it came up for the original gold rush, need a new flat belt & feed gears, but not too bad for 114 years old.
 
Not sure if they got attached, but I tried to add photos of the machines, 1 of both machines in the shop, each of the control panels, the tool chain, and the inside of the 532 machine.

Thanks to both Mike& Karl, I am closer to operation. I replaced the rod271 encoder that was causing it not to get reference position, I have all the constants loaded in both machines. I got the 532 Machine to operate a short test program. I had been trying to use the rs422 for communication, but none of the setting would work for me, I finally connected via the rs232 and downloaded from the machine. The big hold-up on this was that I did not know the panel midway of the power panel hinged to hide the rs232 connector, that was why I had been trying the rs422. Today however, the machine & I are unhappy again, Y-axis will not move. error Y04 shows on screen, Brake? drive?

The 432 machine is tripping the 1Q1 breaker, this is for the "fan / main drive" where is this fan?

Supposed to be getting a Emco cnc 7 axis Lathe delivered today, but it has not shown yet. I was hoping to get a mill going before the lathe arrived. We made the sprocket on our manual machines & have actually spent a lot of the last 3 months cutting 1.660 wide x 22" long internal keyways on our shaper

Hi fan motor on my Indamat 2AD 132 motor (MAHO MH800C) is mounted on the end of the motor, I would suspect that is where yours should be also.
How are you going with the MAHOS?, Like your vintage Lathe
Burgs
 








 
Back
Top