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Omniturn programming....

dkmc

Diamond
Omniturn questions on tool offsets...

Some details about the tool and part:
Part OD is 2 inches
Tool is a boring bar used for turning the OD,
that faces the front of the machine. IOW, to turn on the back side of the part the spindle will have to run CW (M4).

Touch the back side OD (2" part) and set X-2 for the 'what was the turned diameter' question.
Then set -1 for the 'What is the correct starting dimension' question.


Here is the program, last line is the position move:
G90 G72 G70 G40 G97 G94 F250
T00
M01
S550 M04
T1
G94 Z.063 X2.036

In auto/single block when the G94 line is executed, the X axis goes x minus beyond X0.
It will go to the back hard stop if I let it.
??

Why does it try to go X minus if there is a X positive move programmed??

I'm doing something wrong....any ideas what??

dk
 

SwissPro

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 13, 2006
Location
Illinois
You didn't set offset #1 properly.

Edit: Er.. It could also be that you haven't zero returned the machine. In the beginning of the program it's probably a good idea to bring the X and Z axis home, cancel any offset, and set the coordinate system.

As an aside you may want to set Z0 to the back side of the part so you can just use a work shift to establish Z0 for different length jobs.
 

dkmc

Diamond
You didn't set offset #1 properly.
I'm ALL ears...and eyes....what is the proper way...??


It could also be that you haven't zero returned the machine.
Where does the manual explain this procedure?


In the beginning of the program it's probably a good idea to bring the X and Z axis home, cancel any offset, and set the coordinate system.
Seems like a waste of rapid movement to 'go home' every cycle...... What do you mean 'set the coordinate system'........?????


I can't figure out why this should be so simple but seems so round-about and complicated with this machine........ :confused: :confused:
 

Wayne Heard

Plastic
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Location
Auburn Georgia
DK
In the first line you have G72 and G70 doesn't the G72 put the machine into diameter programing and then you switched it into radius programing with the G70? If this is the case the tool is trying to turn a 4.0 diameter and if the bar is close to end of the slide it would trip the limit in X axis.

The only time you have to do a X Z zero return in at the first time you start up the machine , usually. I do this at power up every morning and it doesn't forget unless I have to turn off the controller or I trip a limit switch and have to restart the serve motors with the blue button.

Your explanation of how you set the offset for your bar sounds correct. If you turn a dia on the minus side of X you would answer the "what dia turned" question with a x-??? whatever it measured. The machine then will send the tool to the correct side of centerline from the programed value when you run the program.

I hope I understood the problem and haven't added to it.

Wayne
 

dkmc

Diamond
Wheew...ya had me going there for a minute or 3 Wayne.

G70/G71 is Inch/Metric programming.
Yes, G72 is Diameter....

OR....what does your manual say, maybe mines wrong again!

What do you mean by 'zero return'.....Home the machine with 9 in Jog mode? I understand the one time need at power up, and the control requires
it before you can do anything else.

My 'machine' is an attachment on a Hand Chucker.
It has no limit switches....didn't know the GT75 did.....

So do I have to get tool 1 at X0 and use 'set zero' or something like that????

What the hell am I doing wrong that is making the X wanna go out thru the back wall.... :confused: :confused:
I DO know the F---ing POS manual is of NO help with this....
I sorta had this figured out and 'sorta' had the thing getting tools where they needed to be.....about a year ago.
Now I'm rusty again...

dk
 

ACE323

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Location
New Hampshire
I've got a few questions about your program

G90 G72 G70 G40 G97 G94 F250
T00(dont need this)
M01
S550 M04
T1
G94 Z.063 X2.036(why are you going to x+2.036)
(and I thought line after toolcall could have x and z move ONLY-g94 already instated anyways)


G00G90G94F300G72
M04S550
T1(BORING BAR)
X-2.036Z.063
G95X0.0F.002
G00Z.073
X-2.0
G01Z-.5F.0025
G00X-2.1
Z1.0
T0
M05
G04F1.0
M13
M30
 

dkmc

Diamond
Ace......
That post is from the cam software I use.
It's still got some work needed to get it as
good as it's going to get.
The G94 is probably redundant, but being automatically inserted.

Here is the confusion:
From home, the slide can only move toward the front of the machine which is X+.
Programming X- from home seems like it too would send the slide toward the back of the machine....??
It makes perfect sense if the center of the spindle centerline is reset or preset to X0.
I'm not clear where that's explained in the manual.

Another thought:
In the tool offset procedure, the question 'What was the turned diameter'? I assume that's the diameter of the part, or is it the position of the x axis slide (read in the upper screen)...??

dk
 

Wayne Heard

Plastic
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Location
Auburn Georgia
DK

I don't know if this will help but here is how I set the offset for an OD turning tool.

Lets say it is tool 1 (T1). I jog the turning tool to the part and turn a short section to full cleanup. Back tool away from part in Z+ direction. I do not move any in X axis. Stop spindle and mic the diameter. Then I press T to get the drop down menu and it asks for tool number, I tell it 1., it asks for X or Z I press x it asks "what is diamter turned. I then enter x diameter. If the tool is on the - side of the spindle I put in a X- diameter. If the tool is on the + side it is a X plus diameter. I have never had it send the tool to the wrong side of the spindle.

In my earlier post I used the term Zero return. You are right this is x z home that is required for the machine to do anything else.

Wayne
 

dkmc

Diamond
Wayne what you describe is exactly what I did.
However, do you use the X?? for example, if the diameter is 2.250 inches, (tool behind the centerline), do you type in X-2.250 or just -2.250
??

Same tool,
What would you enter for the 'What is the correct X starting dimension'.....?
My guess if you want to stay away from the part .100 in X would be: -1.175 or should it be X-1.175

Also.......
Is there a way to just enter the correct offsets in the tool table without doing the setup menu, T, answer 2 questions, routine?
IOW do you have to use the T procedure or is there another more direct way?
(I'm really hoping you've discovered a secret drop down menu that bypasses all this confusing crap!)
:D


Thanks

dk
 

ACE323

Cast Iron
Joined
Mar 28, 2005
Location
New Hampshire
DK,

AS far as I know that is the only way to set tools on the omniturn.When it promts you for
"what is the turned diameter?" you should not put in the "x" , just the actual turned diameter,negative value if your tool is behind the spindle.
The second question about actual start is not something that shows up on my control.If you enter the turned diameter and then press enter
then press esc , your x will be set.

If you enter the turned diameter and then press enter twice, another prompt will pop up asking for your z location.
 

Wayne Heard

Plastic
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Location
Auburn Georgia
Dk
If you want to be larger in x- diameter I would think you need to put in X-2.350 as you are wanting to be bigger in X- so a larger - direction would be how you would need to go.

If I am right you are using a programing system to write the actual program. I do not use one of these I have to do all the programing in manual "G" code.

On my controler it does not ask "What diameter to turn" guestions or anything like that. Also the tool offset method we are using is all that is available as far as I know.

Wayne
 

dkmc

Diamond
Wayne, according to the manual... :rolleyes:

The answer to 'What is the correct starting Diameter' should be entered in Radius.
(-1.175 times 2 = -2.350)

This is the older software.
Can't use the newer software unless the motion card is upgraded.....$1200.

Twelve hundred dollars with the same crappy DOS screen and very similar shiity software....my ass.
Any other control has a tool offset table that you just enter the correct values in.

I am really really hoping someone on this forum can point out my errors however obvious they are.
I dread having to call OT for help.... :(

dk
 

masome

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 18, 2006
Location
kent ohio
DK,
In your program you are trying to cut an OD with your tool and not trying to bore.
My machine is 2005 so I don't know if this will apply, but if you are cutting on top of your piece as you are running M04 woulndn't your X value be negative?
A few times I have had to use my cam software for programming and like many other aspects of this machine it is a$$ backwards and what would normally be a positive X value is negative with OmniTurn.
 

Maximus

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Location
Torrance, CA
If you are running the Pre-1995, Pre-MC2 software, the programming is different from the current software and a lot of the stuff in the current progamming manual does not apply. I wasn't aware that you can program in diameter mode, I was told that pre-MC2 software only works in radius mode. You need to position your tool with G92 X## Z## after your tool call. Also different is that you can't use a "R"(radius)value with a G02 or G03. If you want a radius, you need to use absolute "I" and "K" values. Also, I don't use G00 in any of the programming, I use G94F200 for any rapid moves. My biggest beef with the pre-MC2 software is that it does not have roughing and finishing canned cycles nor does it have TNR comp. It was a PITA to get used to, but when I got my machine, it came with the previous owner's program disks, and I was able to copy a lot of the syntax of the previous programs and use it in my own programs. I have not gotten any cam software to work with this machine. I use cam to get the numbers, but still need to edit the program fully to get it to work.
 

dkmc

Diamond
Maximus.......
It feels good to hear I am not alone with these Omniturn problems.
I am at the point of waving the white flag and just suffering through -their- idiotic way of programming the thing. It seems SO unconventional
and overly complicated for such a simple machine.
It didn't have to be this way. The tool table works in a way that no other cnc control I have ever programmed does. Seems pointless when you end up having to use a G92 after each tool anyway.
The most frustrating thing is that you can't just simply enter offsets in the tool table, but have to use the confusing "T" setup routine.....
I have a 10 lb sledge sitting in the corner I keep
looking at...... :mad:


Yes, G94 F250 for rapids.
They claim 300ipm is possible, but I've found it will error out at times if you exceed F250.


It was a PITA to get used to
BOY you got that right!


Also different is that you can't use a "R"(radius)value with a G02 or G03.
Actually, it does work with this control......
As does G72 (Diameter) programming.


I have not gotten any cam software to work with this machine.
I think I am coming to that conclusion now......


I have a program of sorts that I wrote out manually last night. I will try it out today.
It's a simple part that should be setup with a 10 minute program. Amazing that whoever actually wrote this software must have not had a clue how
most conventional cnc controls function.
There is a note in the manual at least one place, maybe two....."Until we change the software, it will take some getting used to"...... :rolleyes:


dk
 








 
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