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Opinions wanted - best CNC machine for this part?

How about a DMG Mori DMC 125FD duoblock? 5-axis mill with turning (like a VTL) and grinding capability. It'll fit your budget... if you can tack on an extra zero.

Would've expected the material spec to be cast iron.

One should not underestimate the difficulty of holding those tolerances in larger parts with lots of surface area. Finishing inserts wear down after just a small number of parts, so the traditional way of dialing in offsets doesn't work so well. Hence, grinding.

Workholding is tricky with big parts and especially pipe-like workpieces. Always easier to clamp in a VTL since gravity is working for you rather than against you.

This part is fairly simple and a single article could be be brute forced on manual machines. Problem is you have 500+ of them to make. The thought of handling these makes my head spin. Storage too... something like 60 wooden pallets?
 
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I was wanted advice and opinions about the type of machine best suited to this job so I'm happy to get advice based on the US market and experience.

Machines that have been suggested, i.e. Mazak, have a distributor down here so I will look into them and what their after sales service is like.

To be honest, one of the main questions I have thought of during this thread is vertical or horizontal going to be the better way to go? The answer to that then narrows down the machine make and model.

Based on your experience and the US market, what would your suggestions be?
Go and have a word with the Okuma guys, I've found them to be pretty good, something like an LB3000 would fit that job.
 
There is no similarity between the Australian and US markets. There’s a reason we don’t have a manufacturing sector anymore. Just trying to buy a machine here is an absolute mission. Good luck dealing with the local Mazak agent, this is from direct experience dealing with them.

I agree with EG about grinding. Easy to hold those tolerances.
It's more about the process, than the machines. .001 on that part isn't all that difficult; as long as the machining process is good. I've turned many similar parts on my Mori-Seiki SL-2 with a 10" Hydraulic Chuck. It's all about the machining process.
 
I've turned many similar parts on my Mori-Seiki SL-2 with a 10" Hydraulic Chuck. It's all about the machining process.
SL2's are nice but this part has an 8" plus hole down the middle and needs 3" off the od. 500 of these would take forever in an SL2. If you already have one sitting idle, okay, let's get started but if you are planning to buy something, he really wants a little more oomph.

Or start with centrifugal castings and skip the 8" bore, which is what I'd do ....

But we never heard back anyhow, so it's all just dust in the wind.
 
SL2's are nice but this part has an 8" plus hole down the middle and needs 3" off the od. 500 of these would take forever in an SL2. If you already have one sitting idle, okay, let's get started but if you are planning to buy something, he really wants a little more oomph.

Or start with centrifugal castings and skip the 8" bore, which is what I'd do ....

But we never heard back anyhow, so it's all just dust in the wind.

My SL-2B, can switch into low gear range, which gives more than enough power to move material productively on large diameter slugs and castings. Although if I were in need of a machine for that job I'd purchase a Big Bore Okuma Captian with 18" chuck, (L370BB) a chip conveyor, and to save my back; a fanuc robot to load and unload.
 
zzzDerekzzz said:
My SL-2B, can switch into low gear range, which gives more than enough power to move material productively on large diameter slugs and castings.
Obviously you have never had a real lathe. The SL2 is nice, yes, but for 500 parts like this, if you are looking for a machine, something like a 1980 Cinturn will absolutely wallop an SL2. Clean its clock, send it back to japan, have its mommy come pick it up. You don't beat 40 dc horses and 25,000 lbs with half that, for raw metal removal. Period.

Not the SL2's fault, physics.
 
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I'm no lathe expert, but it seems like a VTL would be much easier for a part like this. I was in a lathe shop recently that had bought a You-Ji to run parts similar to yours.

Edit: on second thought, it occurs to me that I was in that lathe shop to pick up items I'd bought in an auction since they were downsizing, so you might not want to blindly follow their example.
 
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Obviously you have never had a real lathe. The SL2 is nice, yes, but for 500 parts like this, if you are looking for a machine, something like a 1980 Cinturn will absolutely wallop an SL2. Clean its clock, send it back to japan, have its mommy come pick it up. You don't beat 40 dc horses and 25,000 lbs with half that, for raw metal removal. Period.

Not the SL2's fault, physics.
It doesn't matter how big it is, it's how you use it, and seeing how you don't need a 25,000 boat anchor to turn such a small piece steel; obviously you have little clue over such things as machine tools, and production job layouts. Furthermore, to make such comments as to what my capabilities as a machinist are; again you are completely clueless on that matter as well.

Have a nice day.
 
It doesn't matter how big it is, it's how you use it, and seeing how you don't need a 25,000 boat anchor to turn such a small piece steel;
Right. It's got an 8" hole down the middle. Go ahead, put that on your 13" south bend and tell me mass doesn't matter.

Btw, I've run an SL2 and an SL3. They are nice. But they won't do this job in a timely manner. If he had one, that'd be different. But he doesn't. Claiming "the machine doesn't matter" is ridiculous. You can't push a 4" drill through a solid bar then take out another 4" at a half inch a side with an SL2. Period. It'd take weeks.

The solution is to not have to, by getting spin castings, but no idea if that is possible where the op is at.
 
Right. It's got an 8" hole down the middle. Go ahead, put that on your 13" south bend and tell me mass doesn't matter.

Btw, I've run an SL2 and an SL3. They are nice. But they won't do this job in a timely manner. If he had one, that'd be different. But he doesn't. Claiming "the machine doesn't matter" is ridiculous. You can't push a 4" drill through a solid bar then take out another 4" at a half inch a side with an SL2. Period. It'd take weeks.

The solution is to not have to, by getting spin castings, but no idea if that is possible where the op is at.
I've personally layed-out, tooled up, programmed, set up, run, etc well over 10,000 different manufacturing processes of machined high precision components for the: Military, Medical, Aerospace, etc industries, with hands on perhaps as many as 50 different types of CNC lathes. I've helped build many multi million doller high production processes for many companies. I think I have the qualifications to figure out what can and cannot be accomplished on a SL-2B.

With all that in mind, I take the Okuma CAPTAIN L370BB over your boat anchor any day of the week.
 
I've personally layed-out, tooled up, programmed, set up, run, etc well over 10,000 different manufacturing processes of machined high precision components for the: Military, Medical, Aerospace, etc industries,
Dang, that's impressive ! I for one am amazed and abashed and thoroughly awestruck. However, I'm still going to have to go with Sir Isaac Newton. Probably its the wig ...

I think I have the qualifications to figure out what can and cannot be accomplished on a SL-2B.
What I Did On My Summer Vacation, by IP Standing ...

mori_arty.jpg
 
It's all about the machining process.
Sorry to rain on your parade but it's not all about the machining process. Mass matters hugely when dealing with large work pieces. Maybe I need to pull out my dick and wave it around saying look how at me I've machined everything from 16 ton automotive dies with 50 mm ball nose cutters to matchbox sized injection molds using 0.1 mm ball nose cutters before I'm taken seriously.
 
Sorry to rain on your parade but it's not all about the machining process. Mass matters hugely when dealing with large work pieces. Maybe I need to pull out my dick and wave it around saying look how at me I've machined everything from 16 ton automotive dies with 50 mm ball nose cutters to matchbox sized injection molds using 0.1 mm ball nose cutters before I'm taken seriously.
expand...
It's more about the process, than the machines. .001 on that part isn't all that difficult; as long as the machining process is good. Making this part to spec is all about the machining process... So whip it out, and tell us how would you machine this part to spec with a boat anchor and one of your ball nose cutters?
 
Well it depends on what the parts are doing, what the tolerances are of mating parts etc etc.

.025mm/.001" on a part that size is very tight. Your going to have to be carefull how you inspect, and hope the customer QA inspects at the same room temp, and is competant enough to be able to take proper measurements. Don't assume they can.
I'd have customer QA come out and do final inspection/acceptance at my shop.

if the tolerances were +/-.005" then I'd feel better about making those parts.

I'd no bid at +/-.001"

There are Engineers out there who will specify tolerances with no thought to what the part is doing, and no idea what the implications are of those tight tolerances.

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And of course on top of your machine budget you need to have very competant operators. Not sure whether what it's like in OZ in respect to good competant machinists.
That's one reason I'd go the Lathe/VMC route, then the live tooled lathe route.

Last place I worked (Southern Cal) 9 out of 10 new hires didn't make it to the end of the first week, quite a few didn't make it their first lunch break.


Well, I sorta figgered as you are about the tols for that sized work - when I bought my big heifers.

But then so many of the jobs that I got in had bearing bores in them, or maybe mating to a shaft if lucky.

I run bore tols like that on my 1979 Lodge and Shipley any day.
(Has had new Z axis ways installed along the way)
This is not an abnormal tol at all - depending on the app.
Happens every day.


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I am Ox and I approve this post!
 
I've had unhappy experience with sand cast steel but if they have it near you, centrifugal castings would really be the way to go on these. The density and homowhateverness is about as good as bar, but much less material to remove. They should be able to spin your flanged shape even, which would save you tons of time and material.

If you start out near finished shape, then plus-minus one might not be so bad. You could get by with a much lighter (read "modern") lathe that way, too.

I'd hone and grind, but I'm kinda sick in the head :)

btw, people should not use the word "tolerance". This ain't the NAACP. What do you mean, EXACTLY ? plus or minus half is not the same as +/- one. Totally different animal.


I was going to recommend this as well.
Although I believe that they refer to it as centrifugal forging, not casting?
We have a place here in Detroit that does this, but that seems a long way from your shore, so I would think that you could find someone closer to you that does it.


Also, I would make this 2 opps on a 2x lathe, and one in a VMC.

I run 8x lathes all day long, and I doo NOT think this is an app for such thing at all.
That would just be a waste of resources.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I've personally layed-out, tooled up, programmed, set up, run, etc well over 10,000 different manufacturing processes of machined high precision components for the: Military, Medical, Aerospace, etc industries, with hands on perhaps as many as 50 different types of CNC lathes. I've helped build many multi million doller high production processes for many companies. I think I have the qualifications to figure out what can and cannot be accomplished on a SL-2B.

So assuming you work
5 days/week
50 weeks/year
40 year career

= 5*50*40 = 10000 days

So over a 40 year career you have personally layed-out, tooled up, programmed, set up, run manufacturing processes of machined high precision components once per day. :bowdown::bowdown::bowdown:

That's assuming you've been at it 40 years. and assuming you were as extremely competant at the beginning of your career as at the end.

Now if you've been at it 20 years, that's a setup/program/run every 4 hours. :sneaky:

Maybe you meant a 1000
 
I run bore tols like that on my 1979 Lodge and Shipley any day.
(Has had new Z axis ways installed along the way)
This is not an abnormal tol at all - depending on the app.
Happens every day.

Your right, not that hard if you watch what your doing
 








 
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