OT: “green plans” what happened to reduce reuse recycle?

[Scottl]

Millions of "employees" paid to sit around and doo nothing all day (approx $50k
each year paid for by the taxpayers).

Prisoners, should be sorting on a line. We are paying for them anyways, get them out
of their cells, doing something satisfying, and filling a need.

Same with mowing long the interstates.

Around here most of the roadside trash pickup and some of the hand trimming is done by prisoners doing community service as an alternative to jail. All of the mowing is done by state employees who have the training to work safely next to traffic. The liability issues of using prisoners would be a concern.

I'm not at all a fan of coerced labor from prisoners. Neither am I a fan of charging prisoners so many "fees" that their already meager paycheck gets reduced to virtually nothing.

Contrary to popular belief prisoners did not "choose" to be in prison. Many are there because they made impulsive stupid mistakes that resulted in incarceration. How many of us made impulsive stupid mistakes when we were young and were lucky enough not to end up in their shoes? Despite being a basically "law and order" type I have strong reservations about some treatment of prisoners and I especially despise private For-Profit Prisons who are among the worst abusers of their charges.

I'm fine with recycling as an elective prison job as long as they are not exploited as cheap labor by private contractors as so often was the case with Southern chain gangs.

 

[Scottl]

I think it is OK, prisoner labor...we could pay them $.50 an hour..but we give them free internet and phone so they are out getting girlfriends who send them money.

My wife and her friend were doing their charitable thing by visiting stranger prisoners.. When they told me that they were going downtown, Detroit to pick up someone's sister for visiting her brother I found out that they were doing this. I called my friend Bob and told him what Janie and his wife Iris were up to.

Yes, I put a stop to it and so did Bob. Janie going to visit with wearing her expensive watch and always some jewelry ..and likely talking about my going hunting, so having guns to rob.

If up to me I would cut the sentence time to 1/4 and make it hard time with just a room 24/7 and a water hose bath if they messed their room/cell. No group socializing and a distance between cells so No talking. No special food, if you don't want it then peanut butter sandwiches. Ball and Chain would be Ok. Clean your own room/cell with a bucket, rag, and tooth brush-not a decent job then out comes the water hose. Yes, a first-time young guy would not wish to come/go back. I remember guys bragging about doing time.

The terrorists get a life of special food and private time with their buddies..free retirement when some should have been hung.
End of my rant

WOW, just WOW!

What you describe is a perfect prescription to create even more violent mentally ill inmates and God help whoever is in their way when they get released. I've known several corrections officers and part of the equation for these UNARMED COs to deal with a population that greatly outnumbers them is a system of reward for good behavior and punishment for bad. The most dangerous duty for a CO is in the Solitary Confinement wing where prisoners, many of whom have gone insane, frequently ambush the officers with urine, feces, and even homemade spears fabricated from tightly rolled magazines which they thrust through the opening when food is delivered.

The No Talking rule you suggest was already tried in the USA at a place called Alcatraz. It was discontinued after a huge portion of inmates sent there went insane and often became dangerously violent.

 

[DDoug]

WOW, just WOW!

What you describe is a perfect prescription to create even more violent mentally ill inmates and God help whoever is in their way when they get released. I've known several corrections officers and part of the equation for these UNARMED COs to deal with a population that greatly outnumbers them is a system of reward for good behavior and punishment for bad. The most dangerous duty for a CO is in the Solitary Confinement wing where prisoners, many of whom have gone insane, frequently ambush the officers with urine, feces, and even homemade spears fabricated from tightly rolled magazines which they thrust through the opening when food is delivered.

The No Talking rule you suggest was already tried in the USA at a place called Alcatraz. It was discontinued after a huge portion of inmates sent there went insane and often became dangerously violent.

I think the death penalty should be handed out for 75% of all current inmates.

Why does attempted murder only get you 10 years ?
Either because your a lousy shot, or I'm good at ducking, you should not be allowed to "try again at a later date".

 

[Scottl]

I think the death penalty should be handed out for 75% of all current inmates.

Why does attempted murder only get you 10 years ?
Either because your a lousy shot, or I'm good at ducking, you should not be allowed to "try again at a later date".

Execute 75%?

Almost half the prison population are in for drug charges only. Another bunch are in for non-violent property offenses like burglary, car theft, and other thefts.

Legislatures, prosecutors and the courts are responsible for lighter sentences, not the prisons. Their job is to house the convicted until their sentence is up and they rely to a large extent on cooperation from prisoners which excessively harsh treatment would sabotage.

 

[SteelrFn]

I've never understood all the squawking about "prison labor !" Why the heck not ? as long as it's not 18 hours a day on no food or something, why can't the states get back a little of what it costs to run a prison ?

I finally found a post of yours I agree with.

 

[DDoug]

Execute 75%?

Almost half the prison population are in for drug charges only. Another bunch are in for non-violent property offenses like burglary, car theft, and other thefts.

Legislatures, prosecutors and the courts are responsible for lighter sentences, not the prisons. Their job is to house the convicted until their sentence is up and they rely to a large extent on cooperation from prisoners which excessively harsh treatment would sabotage.

I have no problem with pushing the button on all of them.
"Drug Charges" ?? "non violent" ??? they would end up violent if only by chance, they will kill, they trespass, they violate my rights, my freedoms.

Bad people to the core, never to be any good.

Liabilities, not assets.

 

[Scottl]

I've never understood all the squawking about "prison labor !" Why the heck not ? as long as it's not 18 hours a day on no food or something, why can't the states get back a little of what it costs to run a prison ?

I rarely respond to the PRC troll but in this case can't resist.

OF COURSE a CCP supporter would be fine with prison labor. It's a major part of the Chinese economy as they extract maximum value from the poor wretches in the Laogai system.

 

[Ox]

I think the death penalty should be handed out for 75% of all current inmates.

Why does attempted murder only get you 10 years ?
Either because your a lousy shot, or I'm good at ducking, you should not be allowed to "try again at a later date".

Yeah, well you might be surprised at what wil land you convicted of "Attempted Murder".

I have an 80 yr old sledding chum* that has recently been convicted of that.
(I think that I may be able to keep up with him by now .... maybe.... )

He maybe guilty of Intimidation, but not A/M.
And BTW, the other guy deserved it for sure!

* He lives in Colorado, so that must be the "Green" connection?


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Sweatin' to the Oldies!
Ox

 

[michiganbuck]

In a fit of rage can understand murder. Terrorism and killing people you don't even know is a whole other matter. they are the ones that should get their necks stretched.

Drugging up teens to put them on the street is another hanging crime.

I knew a fellow who killed his brand new wife, stabbed her about 20 times or so.
She was a decent girl and he could have just walked away. Yes, I think he is in the funny farm now and likely never to get out. I would bet that if he gets out he will kill somebody else.

 

[neilho]

I have no problem with pushing the button on all of them.
"Drug Charges" ?? "non violent" ??? they would end up violent if only by chance, they will kill, they trespass, they violate my rights, my freedoms.

Bad people to the core, never to be any good.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but really? All people jailed on drug charges should be killed?

You might be surprised how many people do weed on a regular basis. You prob know a few of them, just don't know that they do. It's pretty innocuous stuff compared to alcohol.

How about DUI's? Push the button?

 

[michiganbuck]

Getting back to recycle:
It is possible that Canada's ban on one-use plastic may also include certain food packaging and soda pop bottles.

Likely some of that thinking will also be common in the USA.

On the news lately is talk about plastics in animald and even babies.

 

[Scottl]

Getting back to recycle:
It is possible that Canada's ban on one-use plastic may also include certain food packaging and soda pop bottles.

Likely some of that thinking will also be common in the USA.

On the news lately is talk about plastics in animald and even babies.

I think it's inevitable. Plastic waste from one-time use food containers is a serious problem. Many takeout places around here use a combination of aluminum foil and paper with minimal plastic if at all and they don't give out disposable plastic cutlery unless it is asked for. Fruit juice and milk have been packaged in coated paper cartons for quite some time now so no reason plastic has to be used for water and soda.

Another bit of irony re plastic bags. The larger markets are banned from using plastic and charge for paper bags if you don't bring reusable ones. The smaller stores are exempt and use plastic almost exclusively. Fine with me because I have second life uses for both.

 

[michiganbuck]

I suspect a plastic bag costs a penny or a few and that paper l perhaps 20 cents.
Yes, paper can dissolve back to organic and plastic lasts darn near forever.

Here is one ref but I don't know how true it is.
Plastic bags cost retailers like grocery stores 2 cents to 5 cents each, and paper ones cost 5 cents to 23 cents. I’m paying for them: The cost is hidden in the cost of the items I buy. I figure I spend $13 to $43 per year on bags I think I am getting for free.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

I think the death penalty should be handed out for 75% of all current inmates.

Why does attempted murder only get you 10 years ?
Either because your a lousy shot, or I'm good at ducking, you should not be allowed to "try again at a later date".

Definitely agree, "attempted" should not be put in front of a crime, to lower penalties. Intent should dictate the charges, not whether the person succeeded or not.

As for prisons I toured one that used to house Charles Manson's mother that was self sufficient in the clothing and food department. They had a farm and a large shop. It was shut down 25 years ago for not meeting new cell size mandates.

 

[michiganbuck]

OT this is way off subject: what happened to reduce reuse recycle?
Oh! recycle people?

I think many criminals are like spoiled kids or spoiled dogs.
You see talented guys/gals who can take a really bad dog and train it to be a good dog. Most people are smarter than dogs so should be trainable.

Some pit bulls are almost untrainable because they were bred to be that way, and yes some owners like that and try to make them even worse, and some are nice dogs.. Just like some neighborhoods train kids to be tough or criminal. Most young criminals are like Cocker Spaniels or Labs so well worth saving and trainable.

Just caging doge does not train them or change them. The tons of money we spend per inmate should be enough to discipline and retrain the ones that can be trained. But what we do is put them in an environment where the tough guys rule and so many sent to prison get little discipline or social training. They are allowed to socialize most of the day with the bad guy /untrainable.
Teenagers and young offenders should get special attention. Every effort like army discipline should be employed. Make your cot, show respect, do every drill exactly or they get only cheese and peanut butter and water.
Inmates should do all the food delivery and such so inmates cant rebel against the prison staff.

And about one-half of one percent should get a simple low-budget hanging.

In my life, I have known a girlfriend at about 11 years old who stole bags of candy(Boston Beans) for me..all the way up to at least one (confirmed)murderer and a couple who likely did or could do, Spent two days and a few weeks in a local cooler, have had numerous acquaintances that were short and long-timers.
I grew up and worked on 8 Mile Road back when that was a tough neighborhood.

 

[Ox]

OK, well - IDK much about prisons. Not my normal scene....

But, you are off base a bit, as I happen to have a [very close] chum that works in corrections .... in Michigan.

AND he started there as kitchen staff, but only as a foreman of sorts.

His prison at least - has low budget criminals, as well as the big dogs.
It is the low budget (Class 1 possibly?) inmates are who actually does all the kitchen duty, and the only "staff" is the foreman type.

He has now gone on to be a guard as that job pays about $5 hr more.


-------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Strostkovy]

Replying to basically only the first post here.


There exists a point where the increased operating efficiency more than makes up for the carbon footprint of producing the new unit. Air conditioners and electric cars are an example of this. Yes, electric cars are energy intensive to produce but at double the efficiency from fossil fuel plants, or far, far better when renewables or nuclear are available easily makes up for that. The math varies considerably by state but ultimately they should all consume less fuel than maintaining current internal combustion engine vehicles. The metals in the batteries can also be recycled, but that lags behind production. Lead acid batteries used to not be recyclable.

Air conditioners are less politically charged and it takes no extra energy to make a good heat pump than it took to make an old inefficient AC.

Plastic recycling is largely a shitshow, and in my opinion we are better off continuing to develop clean energy and use that to recycle metals more often and use that where possible. From what I understand about plastic recycling it makes more sense to burn it (properly, there are obvious hazards to avoid here) for power or stuff it in a land fill, where it stays out of the oceans. Hauling shit to other countries isn't acceptable to me, but the people in power profit off of it so it won't change soon.





To add to the rest of the thread, prison labor is not conducive to rehabilitating anyone, which I feel should be the purpose of prison. It also makes a market for captured criminals, which when added to the current for profit prison system creates sketchy motivation. Also consider it's the prisons who make the money off of the prisoner's labor, and the prisons also make money off of tax payers.

 

[CalG]

Getting back to recycle:
It is possible that Canada's ban on one-use plastic may also include certain food packaging and soda pop bottles.

Likely some of that thinking will also be common in the USA.

On the news lately is talk about plastics in animald and even babies.

Buck

I've read... but have no way to know.

That these new "micro fibers" as found in all this new high tech sports clothing, is so insidious as to be be in every drop of water, every living cell on this entire planet.

Scary to consider. I'm sticking to smart wool and cotton!

 

[EmGo]

Also consider it's the prisons who make the money off of the prisoner's labor, and the prisons also make money off of tax payers.

Seems like that depends on how it's done. If it's Prison Industry Authority, making products which they sell outside, would agree with you. But if it's something the state needs, like license plates or roadside cleaning and planting and so on, as long as prisoners are treated decently seems like an okay thing to me. If'n I wuz locked up, I'd much rather be making toilet paper dispensers for all the state buildings than sitting in a concrete box 22 hours a day.