OT - Evicting a Drug Dealing Tenant

[gwilson]

They'd better not try walking into my house!

 

[Scottl]

First, hire an attorney.
Second, hire an attorney.
Third, hire an attorney.

Eviction, car theft, drug dealing, possible implied threats (if it is YOUR names he is mentioning on the phone, from a guy who has already shown he is not afraid to use the courts.

The fact that you had to ask shows why you should hire an attorney now, rather than later. This bum will ruin your life if you make the wrong moves.

Welcome to the modern America, where low-life scum have more rights than those who play by the rules. An attorney can be a valuable buffer between you and this guy, police, courts, and any other entity.

Also, make sure all insurance is up to date. He may decide to "get even" on the way out. And I disagree that all was fine until he lost his job. People, including his wife and employer, probably wanted to be rid of him for a reason.

 

[Scottl]

Get one of those million candlepower spotlights. Start watching and when he starts doing deals, shine the tenant and the recipient. If they move the deals inside start shining the the buyers as they arrive and leave. Do this for a while, and then offer to let your tenant out of his lease.

No, No, and No! Aggravating members of the subculture is a good way to get hurt or killed.

Tell him you need his help for one day to fetch a parcel from a distant city... This city is LARGER than YOUR CITY......

ON the TRIP, you get him not drunk drunk... just enough....

You drop him off in that distant city and he blinds in with like minded bums in the LARGER CITY.... YOU then BEAT IT OUTA THERE...

And when he finds his way back he has extra motivation to cause some harm as payback. I'll say it again; Aggravating members of the subculture is a good way to get hurt or killed. And the OP might face charges for actions likely to cause harm. One of the big city bums stabs him and he'll end up owning the house.

Some of the "advice" given by PM members in these type of postings seem like juvenile fantasies inspired by too many TV shows and movies. The last thing any normal citizen needs to do when dealing with a member of the criminal subculture is enter their world. It is almost certain to end badly and no one, especially police and courts, will have any sympathy.

 

[Big B]

There sure is a lot of bad advice in this thread. Mostly in the case of advice to just walk into this guys living area and move him out. That will get you into plenty of trouble with the court system.

I have been a landlord for about 25 years. Here is what I would do:

1. Have a talk with your wife about leaving her keys in the car. Tell her that if she can't keep track of her keys without leaving them in her she is not responsible enough to drive.

2. File a notice to quit. In Michigan we have a 7 day notice to quit for rental leases. Find out what the law is in Illinois and use it. I have a total of 2 tenants and did it without the aid of an attorney. The internet is your friend here. No doubt your state has lots of good accurate information about evictions on the net. When you serve him with the notice to quit you might mention that if he leaves voluntarily you will have no need to bring up his drug dealing in front of the judge at the eviction proceedings. That should be a pretty strong message that you want him gone.

3. Don't offer any cash or anything else to entice him to move. That would be handing him another victory at your expense. He is behind on his rent. That is all the reason you need for an eviction.

4. There is also some good advice in this thread. Don't let it get too personal or emotional. It is just business. Trying to reason with this guy isn't likely to get you anywhere.

 

[AARONT]

"That's not true - the "break" in "break and enter" refers to breaking the threshold of the building, not physically damaging the structure. "

Maybe up there, but down here if you leave the door unlocked, a person can come in and walk around your house without breaking the law as long as they don't steal anything or damage anything. If they do steal something, they can be charged with burglary, but not breaking and entering because they didn't break in.

I find that hard to believe. At a minimum, it's still trespassing.

Legal Dictionary | Law.com

 

[Big B]

A lady that I used to work with had a couple of rental properties. She told me that when she gets a tenant that doesn't pay she shows up on a Sunday morning with a hammer and nails. At about 7am she would start nailing the wooden screen door shut. She said the tenants would wake and think someone was pounding on their door. When they opened the door and saw her she would tell them that they couldn't live there any more. Stay in or get out. She told me that the tenants pretty much leave rather than deal with a crazy landlord.

She also would tell them that their stuff would be in the yard and they had a week or so to come get it or she would burn it, which she did on at least one occasion. She was pretty proud of herself being such a heavy with her tenants.

Until the last time she tried it. Tenants called 911 and a cop showed up. She ended up getting scolded by the judge and didn't ever try something stupid like that again.

There is a right way and a wrong way to evict tenants. The right way will yield boring stories but it gets the job done.

 

[bjorn toulouse]

Start the asshole removal process here: https://www.google.com/search?q=illinois+tenant+eviction+process&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Delays in taking action are putting you and your family at further risk!


Rex

 

[steve45]

Does your homeowner's insurance cover having a portion of the property leased out? Most is for a single family residence.

 

[wheels17]

I'm not sure of the details, but this is where a lawyer can help you. In NY at least, there are special rules about owner occupied rentals that make things easier to reject unsavory potential tenants, and to get rid of tenants that are a problem. See a lawyer!

As an aside, I had a friend that had a number of rental properties in less than good areas of the city, but was doing ok. One tenant was a single mom with a kid with welfare assistance. He goes over about a repair and there are 6 or 7 people living there. He starts eviction proceedings, and she gets the city/welfare apparatus to start resisting. This goes on for six months, lawyers, meetings, etc.

Then, he gets a registered letter that the feds are going to seize the house under asset forfeiture rules due to drug activity in her apartment. So, he sets up a meeting with the city/welfare lawyers, and at the same time and place a meeting with the feds. They all walk in and he says "OK, you guys settle this". She was gone in a week. And over the next year he sold all his rentals and moved on to other things.

 

[hobbyman]

I just had to chime in with what my foreman experienced. He was an avid soccer player and when sitting down for a beer at the local pub after a game someone on the team mentions that he has tenant problems. Another team member is interested and asks particulars. It turns out the tenants quickly leave. The landlord finds out from neighbours that a large number of motorcycles showed up. They knocked on the door and suggested the tenants leave before they returned from their bike ride.
No one on the team even dreamed that this one quiet guy had such connections.

 

[Big B]

Something that the OP might also want to check into is the hotel/motel laws. In Michigan if you rent out your place by the week instead of the month you can move people out for non payment without any court proceedings, or so I have been told by a fellow landlord.

He told me it is easier for some people to come up with money for a weekly rather than having to save up for the whole month. Something to think about going forward.

 

[Spinit]

Alright guys, little background first. I'm married, almost 5 years, we have a 1 year old kid, and hopefully more to come. We moved into the house we're in now shortly after getting married, so we've been here for a little over 4 years. The stairs come up right next to the back wall of the garage so we took the opportunity to turn the basement into an apartment. Had a separate entrance built, leading into the garage, put locks on the door leading into the remainder of the house, and put the essential kitchen appliances down there. Had everything inspected and approved by the village as well, so not like we're doing something shady here. The tenant never enters into our portion of the house.

We've had great tenants these last 4 years. This last guy had a well paying job, but was going through some tough times. Was going through a divorce, fighting for partial custody of his kid, etc. Everything was fine until he lost his job. Instead of finding a new job (which he was more than capable of), he decided to file a lawsuit against them saying they should be paying his workers comp, because he was injured on a jobsite while working for them. So these last 6 months or so, he's been getting paid a decent amount just from workers comp, and of course his back is still hurting. Even this wasn't so bad, a little sketchy, but he paid rent and didn't bother us too much.

Well then his attitude starts changing, he starts dressing differently, and he just seems high all the time. First major incident: He totals his vehicle about a mile away from the house. I don't know the specifics, but he somehow rolled his van going around a 25 MPH turn. He walks back to the house after everything is sorted out with the police, then remembers he left his backpack in the van, so he hops in my wife's car (who leaves the keys in her car when parked in the garage) and drives over there before they tow it. It was in the middle of the night, so he didn't want to wake us... It's an understandable story if it's true, but he left waffle pieces all over the car, syrup over everything, and there's a big white stain in the back seat. We find out he took the car not because he told us, but because my wife found the mess. We were probably too nice about the situation, and sort of let it slide, but we made sure it was understood that he is never allowed to take our cars without permission.

Fast forward a month, he takes my wife's car again. You would think she would learn not to leave the keys in the car, but that's besides the point. Same thing, doesn't tell us, leaves a mess in the car, and the passenger side mirror is busted. At this point we know there's something wrong with the guy, and for all we know he used her car to rob a bank. To cover our butts, we file a police report. He admits everything to the officer, but still he claims he just took the car to get some cigarettes, but somehow managed to use up 1/4 tank of gas, and hit the mirror on the garage pulling out. He's charged with trespassing, $1,500 fine, up to 1 year in jail if we press charges. We told him we wouldn't press charges if he packs up and leaves in the next week or two, which he agrees.

Now it's 3 weeks later, he actually wrote us a letter a couple days ago saying how sorry he is, and that he really does respect our property, but adds a little section in the note where he says he talked to his friends at the police station and the way the trespassing charge was handled was not done correctly, and that he's not worried about the charges. The basement isn't sound proof, we can hear him, and in the last couple days have heard him mention several times to his "friends" who come over about his drug sales, and how he's now a drug dealer. Not sure what kind of drugs, probably just narcotics that he gets for his "back pain". We see cars pull up to the driveway, he walks out and walks back in and they drive away. Always at night.

The way I see it, I have 3 options: Decide to proceed with pressing charges for trespassing. I'm not sure how this would work, but can see it not quite working out how I would hope. But maybe this is the quick and easy solution. Not sure if he would even be sent to jail, or just fined? I'm guessing he can still probably deny the charges and say he was coerced into admitting it.

Or possibly see if I can get the police to catch him in his drug dealings. This one would for sure get him out of the house, but might be difficult to prove. But I've also been told this can really screw up property values, and we were planning on moving soon.

Lastly, I could proceed with just a standard eviction procedure. This would probably take about 6-8 weeks, possibly a little faster considering some of the circumstances, but also possibly slower if he fights it. He hasn't paid this months rent.

Yes, I know this is a machining forum, but we've got one of the smartest, most diversified groups out there! Hopefully some of you have some sort of experience in this?

This guy isn't the same guy he used to be. I'd like to say he would never do anything to hurt us, but I would have also said he never would have hopped in one of our cars for a joy ride, let alone do it twice. So I want to make sure I'm safe about this. I do know he has several friends who are involved with his dealings that stay here occasionally over night.

You give a very good breakdown of what happened . Wow what a mess. The young fellow you mention you do seem to try to give him the benefit of the doubt and it seems to me it has long past the point with you that yall have grown to like him as you witness his life changing. Since you have children you have valid concerns about safety. With the charges of taking the car I would bet you may feel that it was too much punishment when you first addressed that problem and that is why you did not press charges then. Now you learn this other stuff. I think you may still just want the fellow to graciously leave and not press charges although this kid is not a lawyer and if he has been told this and that about his charges he should realize that even true it would not be good to have to go through all that because that situation likely will turn out in your favor and just add to all these problems he is amassing. He seems like someone with a drug/alcohol problem and is likely if this is the case (I am just guessing) that he is sick and needs to straighten his life out. Does he have parents? Have you had a recent discussion about your concerns? I think it best to evect him by the book. Tell him no people coming and going throughout the night at the very least and that you are wanting him to leave if all this is happening or to stop immediately. Keep calm and take a witness when you talk with him. Also look over his mood when you talk to him as he could be desperate and dangerous. If that is a possibility then you could just keep it short and to the point that his visitors all hours seem shady and that you and your family wish him to leave maybe move in with one of his "friends" then do the legal or proper procedure to evict him while doing everything you can to feel safe. If someone shows up in the middle of the night disturbing the family tell him you will have to call the cops out. Tell him he has a day to tell his "friends" not to stop by. Safety for you and your family are the primary concern and since you are there you must decide what to do and to live with your decision. I try to work situations out yet it is your owned situation and my take on this is just one way to look at it. I admire you are wise to reach out and get feedback because so many times in my life that is what I needed and yet in the end I had to choose. I get the impression you are much more concerned about his visitors coming than him as far as them being a unknown. That is perfectly natural as a reaction. Regardless it is true you are at the point you must have a civil meeting with him and express your concerns as his landlord. Take God along with you through prayer because with big stuff or small it always helps to say a little prayer for all parties involved including yourself and family.

I did not read all the posts up to this one except the last two. As regards his possible connections it is best if the Motorcycle gang is not there then why would you want to worry about possibilities instead of what you see? I want you my friend to be cautious yet I do not want to give you a bad scenario or anything that is so far not proven. Biker gang or late night visitors both can have the cops called out at 3 AM. Keep a cool head.

 

[tim9lives]

Yea...Best to find a way to get rid of him without him being mad at you. Drugs can really screw up one's perspective of reality and if his life totally tumbles out of control...He will most likely focus his anger on you or your wife.

My guess is he is a heroin junkie....That's the drug of choice. Especially in Chicago. Meth is mostly a rural drug.

Heroin also would explain the nodding out and rolling his van. You could just give him his notice....Telling him you plan on renovating the apartment for an elderly relative.
If he finds out that you didn't do it(renovate) after he's left...and have a new tenant ...Just tell him the elderly cousin of your wife passed away.
Whatever you do...follow your gut. And your gut is telling you he needs to go.

 

[HuFlungDung]

Can't legal lingo be devised in a lease that makes it a lot easier to evict for criminal goings on? Shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel on this sort of misbehavior all the time.

 

[Big B]

It is pretty standard lease agreement language stating that illegal activity is cause for eviction. I have had that in my lease agreements since I became a landlord 25 years ago.

Can't legal lingo be devised in a lease that makes it a lot easier to evict for criminal goings on? Shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel on this sort of misbehavior all the time.

 

[X-Y-Z]

As mentioned a few times here CAMERAS!
They are cheap now, make sure they are obvious and focused on your parking areas, the end of your driveway and YOUR entry doors not his.

1-you may have good footage the cops can use later on.
2-you will have proof of his wrongdoings (auto theft).
3-his dope buddies won't want t be on camera and may shy away.

Lastly make sure your doors and windows are always locked...even when someone is home...it's only a matter of time.

I've been in that situation many times, start eviction now, hire a lawyer to do it, one wrong word in the process and the whole thing is thrown out, you have to start over.
If you try many of the suggestions here, YOU will end up being the DEFENDANT.

 

[hanermo]

I will try my best to advise, based on relevant experience, sort of ..

First...
I fully understand your desire to soft-pedal it, and share the sentiment.
It also, by far, the best strategy overall, for you. (Ime).

In my view You dont seem to want to win, punish, overrule, make money or anything.
You just want the problem gone.
Kudos.
Agree 100%.

(All) The advice on avoiding aggro is 100% correct.

You need to make the situation, for him, untenable.
Without you being an aggressor.
Without you being or seeming weak/vulnerable/exploitable.

Lawyers, mostly, make the process aggro, complex, slow, expensive.
I am married to a layer.
We employ (salary) lots of them.
I have had lots (18) of lawyers.

I would suggest something like this.

Legal advice, if you have a few $$, is very worthwhile.
"Light" Legal proceedings, in the most polite manner possible, are a great idea.
Notice, of eviction, polite letter-type.
Informational, non-threatening.

Try to suggest that the lawyer has gone to the cops.
Maybe do so, if at all possible.
I would not take any potential wrongdoing into account/mention it.
Soft pedal.
(A lawyer can always add charges. Zero need to start with).

By all means, no threats.
No need to.
No profit from it.
Be businesslike.

By now, good likelyhood he will leave.

(btw)
I am not against paying him to leave "relocation assitance".
The problem is, usually these guys come back for more, later.
Or it drags out, etc etc ctc.
If its the PI (lawyer) paying, better, imho.


*With* legal docs, then approach the local cops.
The local cops cannot fail to act, when there are legal docs in view, as their actions become evidence, with consequences, etc etc..
They are *required* to *prove* their actions later.

Thus, they would rather make sure the problem goes away.
And they *do* have the means to do so.

If you have some money, get temporary local security/private eye, on premises.
Licensed and legal.
Legal, and polite, is critical.
They will likely also have relationships with the cops.
(I would like to say that if they look like a sicilian sicario its a positive, but dont really think so. In truth, professional is much better, in reality. And lots of experience, 30+ years.)

It makes you the non-agressor - which is what you want.
It makes your family "safer" which is what you want.
I would spend 1-2k on this, for safety. On credit, if I had to.
A PI (contacts at police) at the door will restrict other options from the tenant and the "MC gang" ideas.
1 week should do it.

People speaking about guns are normally not trained in firearms.
Guns have lots of big negatives- and I am a vet, with extensive training.
I have no advice/opinion, because your country is "special" in this regard.

I would very much suggest you dont want to come off as a hard case.
This is a horrible road to get on - with significant complexities and hidden penalties and huge liabilities and hidden risks, often long term.
You really dont want favors from wise guys-
as they will later price tham based on their conception of your NPV or Net Present Value.
Its a non-recourse loan you Really Dont Want.

 

[Econdron]

Well as a small update, we've been overhearing more of his conversations, seems like his "business" is starting to get into some pretty big jobs. I was fortunate that the cop who came originally was very much on our side. He pulled me aside after talking with the tenant and strongly recommended that he just arrest him right then and there. He was probably right. But like I said, he left the case open and gave me his cell number. I just called him (he was off duty) and explained that we overheard him admitting to being a drug dealer. He didn't seem too concerned about this, and just said he would come by again and talk with him again. He also said probably just go ahead with pressing charges on the trespassing, and possibly getting a warrant to search his area, but he would check with his boss first on what was best.

As for the selling drugs by a school, that's interesting you mention that because we are right across the street from a big Illinois high school. Easily within 1,500 feet. I looked up the law, looks like if he's convicted for drug dealing, his sentence would be doubled just for being near a school.

On a partial side note, does anyone know what happens if he is arrested? I'm not sure of how that works. Is he thrown in jail right away, or is he "free" until a court case? And do I still have to proceed with the eviction process or is it just automatic? His original lease expired, which means it automatically renews as a month-to-month basis on the same terms as the original lease. I can give him a 5-day notice for non-payment, a 10-day notice for violating the lease agreement, or a 30-day notice for whatever reason I want.

 

[hanermo]

You dont live in a sitcom or telenovela.
Getting arrested is not end of life or end of story.
If its not a major-crime and tv story, sooner or later everyone is out.

And yes, you need to make papers, for legal reasons.
They dont need anything complex.
In essence. "no pay .. move out .. per terms"

So, dont be the "bad guy".
The perps are not going to see things for what they are - but for what they seem to be, from their own POV.
They are not, really, bad guys, necessarily.
They are not thinking clearly at the moment.
And they have bad advice from sociopaths and associates and "friends" with nothing to lose and often multiple convictions.
They dont really hate you - yet.
Keep it so.
Avoid aggro at all costs.

Avoid thinking like the "punisher" - unless you want to be one as well without wife, family, conscience.
See what I mean..

When someone else, anyone, explains about the cops and end game, typically, they always find another place and so on.
1. Call lawyer for a cheap chat, 1 hr (50-200$).
2. Light notice, 5 day. Any documentation, asap. Technicalities are not the point, at the moment.

Explanation from anyone else, "credible" as can be, about directions and results, cops, jails, ...

A gun is only for killing someone.
Dont pretend.
How will your family manage, if you get (only) 1-2 for justifiable homicide, out in 6 months (quite possible).
And 1-2 years in process first, no income.
Think about it in advance, as this will reduce urges for temperate actions.

In extremis, well .. its better to be judged by 12.
But its a heavy, heavy, psychological burden.
And vastly harder to do (technically) than 99.9 people think.
E.g. 99% of cops bullets dont hit the target.

 

[Superburban]

I would talk to the cop again. Maybe try to get a plain cloths to do a walk through with you as if they were a prospective buyer, or contractor. Anything he sees, can be enough to get a warrant and come back when you are not around, to give the appearance that you are not the one responsible for the raid. Then depending on your lease, and/or state laws, that can be grounds for immediate eviction.

On a partial side note, does anyone know what happens if he is arrested? I'm not sure of how that works. Is he thrown in jail right away, or is he "free" until a court case?

Depending on the charges, he may be able to be released on his own, or may have to post bail. Obviously, the more charges, and more serious, the less the chance of him being able to make bail. Again, something you can discuss with the police.

Make a list of your observations, and concerns, so you will not forget anything when discussing this issue with the cops.

They may try to go for a warrant, just off your information. I would be reluctant to do that, as your name will be tied to the case, and he may find out you started the ball rolling. That's why I would try to get a walk through by the plain cloths, under the guise as a buyer, or contractor. Maybe even get the codes department to do an inspection based off neighbor complaints. My experience, the police know the issues, and are willing to work with you to keep your name off the paperwork. But let them know your concerns, you don't want this guy building up hatred for you, over the 5 to 10 years he hopefully sits in jail, then visiting you when he does eventually get out.