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OT - looking for a Ford F150 forum - for 2004-2008 models

aribert

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Location
Metro Detroit, MI
Greetings All
I'm considering upgrading my P/U and I have an interest in the 2004 to 2008 F150 (last yrs for manual trans in a half ton Ford P/U). I am on one F150 forum that is reasonably active for the older F150s like I have and appears active on new trucks but the forum appears dormant for the '04 to '08 years. Any recommended F150 forums?

If you have owned a convention/regular cab F150, '04 to '08 (one row of seating, not an '04 Heritage) and you don't mind me asking you a few questions, please send me a PM. If any of you have long term experience with the Ford 4.2L V6 and you are willing to answer a few questions, please send me a PM.
 
A friend has a fleet of E150-E350 work vans. Mostly 300 sixes and 4.2 V6's with a couple v8's. His highest mileage 400k+ van has a 4.2. It's had the trans rebuilt and headgaskets done. That's it. He likes the 4.2's.

The F150's used the Mazda built M5R2 stickshift. They are a great transmission when the rubber shift rail plugs are replaced with steel cup plugs otherwise they lose fluid suddenly and melt.

If you test drive one and it rumbles in 1,2,3 and 5, but it's quiet in 4th it needs new input and cluster gears.

The other weakness is the shifter seats. If the shifter feels sloppy it needs 20 minutes and $5 in parts.

I am not a fan of those F150's in general though. I bought a low mile 5.4 2004 expedition in 2006. It was a total pile of shit. I later owned a 98 expedition and have nothing good to say about it either.
 
If any of you have long term experience with the Ford 4.2L V6 and you are willing to answer a few questions, please send me a PM.

RUUUUNNN!
I have the remnant's of 3 of them still sitting on my shop floor.

rsz_20221006_222257.jpg

One had a bent rod from hydro locking and all 3 had severely pitted heads around the coolant ports and pitted cylinder walls from coolant leaking into the cylinders. I promise you that every single 4.2l will die from this ^^^ due to a terrible intake gasket design.

I wanted to rebuild one but I wasn't paying to have a garbage v6 bored and get a new set of pistons. Out of 3 separate engines, I couldn't use one.

I bought a reman from AER for $2400. It came with a 3 year 100k mile warranty and I am about to use it.

I put the reman in on Nov 15th. I'm coming up on the first oil change now (minus break-in) and it has consumed 1.2 quarts! Oh, it also has a lovely piston slap until it warms up.

The truck gets a whopping 12 mpg with the most lethargic acceleration you could ever imagine.

Please sir, unless you hate yourself, do not buy a 4.2l!

I would highly suggest a nice, clean 93-96 f150 with a 300 I6 or a 302.
 
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I've also had nothing but good experiences with the efi 300 six trucks. Run forever, great power with some minor mods and great mileage.
 
I already have a '91 w/ the 4.9/300 six (Ford's attempt at building a gasoline powered diesel), shade over 200K miles, half a qt oil in 3K miles, probably has another 150K+ miles of life left in it.

DouglasJRizzo: name of forum or link to forum please.
 
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Greetings All
I'm considering upgrading my P/U and I have an interest in the 2004 to 2008 F150 (last yrs for manual trans in a half ton Ford P/U). I am on one F150 forum that is reasonably active for the older F150s like I have and appears active on new trucks but the forum appears dormant for the '04 to '08 years. Any recommended F150 forums?

If you have owned a convention/regular cab F150, '04 to '08 (one row of seating, not an '04 Heritage) and you don't mind me asking you a few questions, please send me a PM. If any of you have long term experience with the Ford 4.2L V6 and you are willing to answer a few questions, please send me a PM.
Junk 3 V engines that are prone to failure
 
I already have a '91 w/ the 4.9/300 six (Ford's attempt at building a gasoline powered diesel), shade over 200K miles, half a qt oil in 3K miles, probably has another 150K+ miles of life left in it.

DouglasJRizzo: name of forum or link to forum please.

I pulled a 300 out of a beat up $200 91 F-250 with over 400K miles on it. Had the head rebuilt and installed it with the EFI in a lifted 1977 F-250 4x4. Friend drove that truck daily for over a decade until he bought he a new truck and sold the 77 to me. I kept it for a few years then sold it for lack of use. It was great truck. No idea how many miles were on that engine, but probably around 500K. I still see that truck on the road occasionally.

If I were going to buy a 1/2 ton Ford it'd be an 87-91 with the 300/M5R2 or a recent one with the 3.5 ecoboost and auto. The ecoboost trucks are OK as long as you don't expect great economy or for it to last more than a decade.

One of my favorite pickup builds I ever did for a customer was a dirt simple 1987 F-150 2wd. I replaced the 300 six with a turned up 4BT Cummins and M5R2. With lots of room up front I fitted a large intercooler. Did mandrel bent 3" exhaust out the back. Eaton Tru-Trac and 3.08's in the back and that little truck was a blast to drive. Get on the freeway at 110 if you wanted and get 25MPG's without trying in the least.
 
Found a few more pics for you;

rsz_20221014_182932.jpg

^^^This pic is from engine #1. Catastrophic gasket failure. If you look close, you can see coolant in the intake port. This gasket is where the damage always starts. They use a plastic gasket frame with thin silicone sealing surface.


rsz_20221014_143107.jpg

^^^ This pic is from engine #2. Coolant starts "doing work" on the aluminum surfaces that the gasket seals against. As far as I know - This is not preventable, it's a slow erosion. Once a small little weep hole opens up, coolant fills the gasket surfaces under the plastic gasket frame. It then begins to erode the intake and head mating surfaces until it gets into an intake port. You likely won't even notice a difference in performance at first.

rsz_20221017_214627.jpg

^^^ pic from engine #3
When the engine is running, it pushes the coolant out of the cylinders no problem. But... When you shut the engine off, the coolant system it still hot and under pressure. Coolant gets pushed into the cylinders and just sits there, rusting and pitting up your cylinder walls until you start the engine and repeat the cycle.

If it goes on long enough, eventually the gasket will have a catastrophic failure (see pic #1) and your cylinders will fill with more coolant than the exhaust valves can push out. The engine will hydraulic lock and that's all she wrote.

Pics from 3 separate engines. 😕
 
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Oh, I almost forgot the best part! The engine in the truck, the one that hydro locked... It already had the intake gaskets replaced at some point. When I pulled it out of the truck, I noticed it had a few of those little tokens epoxied to the side of the block - the tags that part recyclers use to confirm it was their engine for warranty purposes.

This truck has 225k miles and already destroyed at least two of these engines!

I bought the truck because it has zero rust, none at all. It has a fairly new trans as well. Best of all it was cheap, like too good to pass up kind of cheap. I could have done without the lesson on 4.2's though.

rsz_20201017_180409.jpg

If your truck still has good bones, you can rebuild just about everything mechanical for about $15k.

Or you can spend $15k on a newer one and you'll likely still need to do ball joints, tie rods, shocks, wheel bearings, brakes and tires. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though, it just depends on what you want.
 
Freedommachine:
Thank you for the education! I spent the evening reading threads in the F150 forum that BoozDaily linked to. One of the threads was 4.2L engine mileage to date. One of the posters implied that the later 4.2s (about 2005+) were quite durable/dependable. Is the problem you are showing possibly related to early 4.2s? Your opinion - is the gasket coolant leakage and resultant erosion primarily a time or mileage issue? IOW, expect to have this issue every decade or every 150K miles (I'm just making up numbers, no idea as to what they might be).
 
Freedommachine:
Thank you for the education! I spent the evening reading threads in the F150 forum that BoozDaily linked to. One of the threads was 4.2L engine mileage to date. One of the posters implied that the later 4.2s (about 2005+) were quite durable/dependable.

No problem, I am happy to help.

Of course I can only speak from my personal experience and subsequent opinions formed on the matter.

Is the problem you are showing possibly related to early 4.2s?
I am fairly confident that I understand the problems causing this issue. I have yet to find any information describing the design revisions that may have been implemented to solve it.

Short answer: I don't know and until I see 'the fix' I do not trust it.

Your opinion - is the gasket coolant leakage and resultant erosion primarily a time or mileage issue? IOW, expect to have this issue every decade or every 150K miles (I'm just making up numbers, no idea as to what they might be).
The kicker here is erosion, corrosion or a combination of both. Once it starts, it never stops. The intake gaskets have plastic dowels on each end to locate them on the heads. When you remove one gasket and replace it, the new one ends up in the exact same location as the old one.

If the mating surfaces are pitted from corrosion or otherwise imperfect, they will begin to weep/leak again in fairly short order.

The gaskets also have metal pads around each bolt hole, this limits the total 'crush-ability' of the gasket. No matter how tight they are torqued, it will always have the same amount of gasket 'squish'.

The best solution I see would be to prevent the coolant from becoming corrosive to the aluminum. Maybe it's a PH balance issue or something like that? Next, a more robust gasket is in order.

I don't think time or mileage would be something that could be pinpointed as a constant although they both play a large role. It would come down to how attentive the previous owner(s) was.

If you are looking a 4.2l truck and the owner stated; "intake gaskets replaced 5k miles ago" it means very little and I would be suspicious tbh. Did he replace the gaskets preemptively? OR did he wait until it was drinking 1/2 gallon of coolant every 1k miles?

The later most likely. This would mean that the head and intake surfaces would look like pic #2 and unless they are resurfaced, the problem will gradually continue to get worse until a new gasket won't do anything more than slow the leak.

If the coolant system was flushed at regular service intervals since the truck was new, I assume this would help. Maybe the gaskets would last 130k before preemptively replacing them?

If the coolant system was never flushed and an inattentive owner just jumped in and drove it? You would get what is shown in #2 and #3 photos above.

Unless someone has extensive service records from a ford dealer, documenting a long life of regular service, I would be hesitant to pay anything close to market value for a 4.2 truck with more than 90k miles on it.

Like you said, maybe they implemented a design change to solve the problem. I haven't seen one so I will stick with "stay away" lol.
 
@aribert Feel free to copy everything I've shared here and paste it in a thread on the F150 forum if you'd like.

I would be curious to see what the general consensus is on the matter.
 
Preventing aluminum corrosion in coolant systems is usually done with a sacrificial zinc anode.

Would be interesting to see if adding one to a 4.2 early in it's life solved the issue or not.
 
Freedommachine:
A response I got on one of the Ford forums, quoted directly from the Wikipedia page for the 4.2L. “All 1997–1998 engines made at the Canadian Essex plant received a bad front cover gasket. Ford initially addressed this problem by using a thicker gasket for the 1999 model year and five years later, in 2004, replaced the earlier gasket with a completely redesigned part. The lower-intake manifold also had a reputation for cracking at relatively low miles. ” Link with a bit more info but no details as to what the redesign entailed: https://itstillruns.com/ford-engine-problems-5576735.html
 








 
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