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OT - opening up as best we can. AKA - is it still just the seasonal flu?

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You might want to consult with those affected by the steel tarrifs. Or the farmers (I know, not manufacturing) who
have been screwed over.

Granted things were looking OK for a while, so you say it's his doing.
Now they're in the shitter. Still his doing as far as the voters are concerned.

"Economy is GREAT, it was ME."
"Economy SUCKS, probably obama, or hunter or nancy or protesters or or or or or...."

Scottl's statement is absolutely correct.

And the most unfortunate fact (for some) is that there is no recession. Manufacturers are moving forward, as they carry the US economy on their back.

Whether you like it or not, President Trump has tapped into the "manufacturing economy". I see no sign of let up, this will be the best year for most business that create things.
 
Scottl's statement is absolutely correct.

And the most unfortunate fact (for some) is that there is no recession. Manufacturers are moving forward, as they carry the US economy on their back.

Whether you like it or not, President Trump has tapped into the "manufacturing economy". I see no sign of let up, this will be the best year for most business that create things.

Except, apparently nobody wants to buy them.
 
... I do not think a reliable and accurate database could be setup in such quick fashion to track these test results.
Unless said person used a phony name for the second (confirming) test, I don't understand why you doubt that a database could be easily set up to handle this ? It's not rocket science. Tests have names attached to them, they aren't just random strangers plucked off the streets of Belgrade .... (although that's what you need to see how many cases there are in the general population, but that's a different subject.)


I kinda wonder what domestically made goods CalG can find to buy .... not clothes, sheets, pillowcases, hand tools, small appliances, most furniture, computers, teevees, machine tools .... I guess his Toyota is domestically made, sort of ...

janvanruth said:
chances that your family will catch it are actually quite low, on average 50% for each member
That's an interesting version of 'low' ....

Dualkit said:
the effort of the left to erase history
Trueturnining joined up with the left now ? He's the snowflake all butt-hurt by a few photos of real history.

btw, "standards of today" ... when was the Declaration of Independence written ? What was that part, umm ... lemme try to remember ... something about "all men created equal" .... ? Something like that, I'm sure I read it ....

It appears to me that the Daughters of the Fucking Slave Owners are the ones who rewrote history, pretending that a group of worthless creeps were admirable, principled men. Rewriting history was done in the early 1900's. Melting their statues would be a correction, not a re-write.

Doesn't change history, anyhow. Just means we don't put loser generals up on pedestals.

Yes, even Washington and Jefferson can stand a little review. Junipero Serra for sure ought to be toppled, I couldn't believe it when they made that asshole a saint. Pitiful.
 
I'm not disagreeing either but how many of those that "made" the USA were born there? Immigration was important.

I remember years ago my wife and I were eating in a restuarant somewhere in the USA and a couple were having a (friendly) discussion at the next table and, from their converstation, I could hear they were also visiting the state we were in. I asked where they were from thinking they'd tell me which state. From my accent when I speak English there's no doubt I'm Scottish :) She replied "My origins are German" and he replied "My family originally comes from Italy". They were both born in the USA but regarded their roots as being important.

"German-Americans are America's largest single ethnic group (if you divide Hispanics into Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etc). In 2013, according to the Census bureau, 46m Americans claimed German ancestry: more than the number who traced their roots to Ireland (33m) or England (25m).Feb 5, 2015"

You have nothing to do except be a Ass. We understand where we all came from here in the United States. Also we know the connection to where we came from and our relatives. You do not get the connection.

We tire of you being envious of us when we have only wanted and want to help and support you. Can I say it? Persons like you appreciate nothing and actually disgrace anyone who comes to your aid. Russia - you will get what you deserve and yes we may even try to prevent it. Whether that will actually happen remains to be seen given your hatred of America. It is nothing new and in fact you are not a majority in Europe as sanity prevails there.

Your kind are called out both here and where you live you just pretend that everyone there is like you yet they are not. Be sure the ones who stand up against Russia will protect you even though you do not deserve it perhaps your offspring will see the light. There should be no divisions between us except for trash like you.
 
You have nothing to do except be a Ass. We understand where we all came from here in the United States. Also we know the connection to where we came from and our relatives. You do not get the connection.

We tire of you being envious of us when we have only wanted and want to help and support you. Can I say it? Persons like you appreciate nothing and actually disgrace anyone who comes to your aid. Russia - you will get what you deserve and yes we may even try to prevent it. Whether that will actually happen remains to be seen given your hatred of America. It is nothing new and in fact you are not a majority in Europe as sanity prevails there.

Your kind are called out both here and where you live you just pretend that everyone there is like you yet they are not. Be sure the ones who stand up against Russia will protect you even though you do not deserve it perhaps your offspring will see the light. There should be no divisions between us except for trash like you.

Unlike Thermite, I can actually understand what you write. It's not a good look for you.
 
You continue to BASH the US of A at every turn, yet you travel here, enjoy our freedoms.
And continue to BASH the US of A.

Hypocrite in the extreme.

Your continued bashing might just get you on the "no fly list".....

He went to Texas and had a great time. He was welcomed there him and his wife. Then he disparages the locals while he is there. He should have picked a fight with a Texan for all the crap he dumps on America.

Maybe he yet will in the future perhaps tell the people in Texas they and their ancestors are/were slavers and racist. Must be good to tag that on someone else considering your pioneering work in that regard. Except y’all never paid in blood for it.

Mind your own business we do not need you. There are some who like what you believe who are toadies really and arse kissers to you. It is nothing new by any means really. Enjoy your life-solve your own problems of which there are a lot.
 
Two interesting articles, but pretty much flatly contradicting each other.

The first, from Norwegian researchers convinced they CAN produce a vaccine, thinks the deadly virus may have been created in a lab.

The second, from a Bulgarian pathologist, thinks it's impossible to create a vaccine; but it shouldn't matter because the virus hasn't killed a single person.

Could be the virus was a lab experiment gone wrong. I'd point out, though, that for every scientist genetically splcing bits of DNA or RNA together - nature is running thousands of "experiments" with random mutation and selection creating new variants. Time may tell. Given time, natural selection has produced some pretty amazing things (we humans, the eyes in various species, etc.) without the aid of a lab. Certainly an avenue of inquiry that should be pursued.

Second source a little flakier. There have been other autopsies - far more of them -showing gross and hither-to unseen changes to the lungs and other organs of CoViD patients. Still, TB as a complicating factor could be sometimes a factor. But far as I know, we haven't seen a sudden surge of TB infections among, say, Trump campaign staff or Boris Johnson to account for their infections.

On topic Pete and at your very best. Thankyou.
 
gratitude?
for your country fighting its war on our territory?
it is not as if the usa came to our rescue.
our country just happened to be on the way to berlin.
those soldiers did not die to liberate our country, they died for the fatherland.

those dutch soldiers that died in iraq, afghanistan, libya and syria next to the usa soldiers went not because the dutch wanted to bring democracy, but because they were sent there by the dutch government as i sign of goodwill towards the usa.
but be assured, there will not be a next time.

i bet the vietnamese, iraqi, afghani, syrians and libyans are very grateful for all the death and destruction the usa has brought them.
the moment the usa does no longer invade and destroy souvereign countries for no good reason, that will be the moment i will start to not care any longer which moron becomes your president.

nato?
where was nato when a foreign nation invade great britain in 1982?




Well I rest my case against you worthless trash of humanity there. How you can condescend to us Americans or British is beyond our comprehension. I guess since your generation is removed from that war somewhat now someone came in and messed with your minds making America the great boogieman man causing all of your problems.

Grow up stop your crazy train.

Stand up for yourselves at least you embarrass us over here and we are all glad we left you to come here. We did not like your persecution in any way.
 
Well I rest my case against you worthless trash of humanity there. How you can condescend to us Americans or British is beyond our comprehension. I guess since your generation is removed from that war somewhat now someone came in and messed with your minds making America the great boogieman man causing all of your problems.

Grow up stop your crazy train.

Stand up for yourselves at least you embarrass us over here and we are all glad we left you to come here. We did not like your persecution in any way.

All the insults coming from you sound like a president. Are you sure you are not little donnie in disguise?
 
I have noted, that "Americans", who built this nation, LEFT their native countries to come here.

Opportunists? Escapists? I leave that for you to figure out.

It's getting to the point that I would like some 'americans" to do the same, and leave. Go make it in the new land, what ever you dream. There are lots of empty places in the world still. Don't be a leech, Strike out!
Just not here, and don't try to force me to see it your way.
 
You have nothing to do except be a Ass. We understand where we all came from here in the United States.

Judging by the bulk of your posts, you likely were the result of a retarded ape banging a buffalo.

Also we know the connection to where we came from and our relatives.

So you visit the zoo often. Good for you.

We tire of you being envious of us when we have only wanted and want to help and support you. Can I say it? Persons like you appreciate nothing and actually disgrace anyone who comes to your aid.

So we're propping up Denmark now huh? Any proof of that? Or is that something you found in the latest steaming pile of Trumpshit you swallowed?

Russia - you will get what you deserve and yes we may even try to prevent it. Whether that will actually happen remains to be seen given your hatred of America.

Please refer us to any post where Gordon voices any hatred for the United States. Or, alternately, you can just admit you're another typical ignorant-as-a-stump lying internet loudmouth.

Your kind are called out both here and where you live you just pretend that everyone there is like you yet they are not.

And you know this how? Proof? Or more lies from a pathetically stupid little worm?

Be sure the ones who stand up against Russia will protect you even though you do not deserve it perhaps your offspring will see the light. There should be no divisions between us except for trash like you.

So, are you going to be among the 82nd Airborne when the US goes in to free Denmark from Russia? Or are you going to sit here stateside, wrap yourself in the flag, and brag about what a patriot you are like a typical gutless chicken hawk.

Your trash comment is particularly ironic. You are the textbook definition of white trash. Barely literate, minimally educated, insulting loudmouth, readily makes up lies about people they know nothing about and then tries to pass those lies off as fact, clings to "southern heritage" and all the wretched shit that entails, and generally ignorant of anything more complicated than a baloney sandwich. You check every box. I've lived my entire life around "proud southern" loudmouth dimwits like yourself, and long ago came to the conclusion they're about as useful to society as a used condom.
 
I voted for Obama, I was very disappointed. I did not want a continuation. What a change with DJT. I love the show, but wish "they" would pull together instead of always dragging things down. I'm beginning to feel that those opposed just do not see how destructive they are to EVERYONE. Remember, in the past elections, the vote has been split 50/50 very closely.

Being president of the USA should not be a "show". Opposed? Just about everything Trump says and does is making "them and us" more and more daily life. He's surrounded himself with "yes" men and anyone that doesn't approve of what he does gets removed. Look at Pence when he stands next to or behind Trump at a speech. A well trained dog isn't that obediant.
 
You continue to BASH the US of A at every turn, yet you travel here, enjoy our freedoms.
And continue to BASH the US of A.

Hypocrite in the extreme.

Your continued bashing might just get you on the "no fly list".....

Find a single post by me to back up your claim. Not an excerpt but an entire post. "Bashing" Trump isn't bashing the USA. I'm just agreeing with the majority of your countrymen.

I bet you can't.
 
so why does El Gordo visit ?
And cause car accidents.....

Wow you really do follow me around diggity dog. Are you a fan or a stalker :D

That accident happened in Texas years ago. I admitted at once it was my fault and had full insurance. Both the driver of the other car and the policeman shook my hand and wished me a great vacation with a smile when the paperwork was done. I guess Texans are more polite and friendlier than where you come from.
 
One where I DON'T have to chronically insult those with different opinions, something you leftists can't seem to chronically rise above.

You don't live here so you have no real skin in the game. I spent a lifetime mostly on the engineering side of U.S. manufacturing and over the past four decades have watched what loss of our manufacturing base has done to the country and it's people. Donald Trump is the first president in that time who has done anything to reverse those losses. For those who say he's "not presidential" they are totally ignorant of American history. Over the centuries we had a few firebrands not afraid to call an SOB an SOB.

And that post isn't insulting? LMAO I'm NOT a "leftist". Not a "rightest" either. Is a simple mind, simple thoughts a good description of you? You certainly like your boxes.
 
. . .. I spent a lifetime mostly on the engineering side of U.S. manufacturing and over the past four decades have watched what loss of our manufacturing base has done to the country and it's people. Donald Trump is the first president in that time who has done anything to reverse those losses. . .

We could look at the data: Manufacturing Sector: Real Output (OUTMS) | FRED | St. Louis Fed

Over the past 40 years, the most rapid growth in manufacturing output was under Clinton. Up about 50% under his tenure. So, that pretty much trashes the whole Trump worship. But, let's follow along.

There was growth, but at a lower rate, under Bush 2.0. Which ended in a crash - mainly because we let the finance sector hollow out real value add. Bush 2.0 ended up under water.

Note how our about-every-ten-year crashes are usually caused by our finance sector and how the middle class gets a little smaller and the banksters are litlle wealthier after each squeeze. Kind of like a python squeezing the life out of the economy. In the linked chart there's the Savings & Loan crisis. Took a bit of air out. Then the Dot.com bust. Hyping all those stocks. Then a whopper - the Great Recession. And now a pandemic Trump tried to dismiss, now takes no responsibility, and ends in printing trillions and giving it away. Want to know who's mostly going to get it? Look no further than Trump's Cabinet picks - finance, oil, pharma, real estate etc.

Manufacturing grew again under Obama, up around 10% under his watch. He did keep our auto industry, and talked about restoring manufacturing, but it was slow growth. Had it been Trump, though, this would have been the greatest recovery in the history of Western civilization.

Get past the recession and the rapid recovery bit and the trend line for Obama and Trump is essentially the same until about summer 2019 - when under Trump it went into recession. Check the chart.

There's a tiny pimple around when raw materials prices went crazy, upping prices and "output" the tiniest bit. Remember that?

There has actually been a far lower growth rate under Trump than Clinton, much lower growth than under Bush 2.0 in the go-go years (but note that crash), and even a bit worse than under Obama.

Then, look at the cost as Trump tried to game this, focusing mainly on propping up the Dow Jones Industrial Average. He tried every trick in the book to juice the economy in the short turn, while most economists knew this could only lead to a deeper bust.

We added a trillion a year to the debt even after employment returned (that's normally when you stop borrowing).

We repatriated corporate cash with the only reinvestment pretty much being stock buybacks.

We trashed environmental regulations to add a bit to short-term profts. Someone else always pays for the clean up.

We pumped in defense money.

Jawboned interest rates to near zero.

All to see both the trade deficit increase under Trump and manufacturing in a recession by summer 2019. As has been discussed ad infinitum before - getting a level playing field with China could easily have been done by requiring them to comply with first world IP, labor, safety, and especially enviromental standards.

The big problem, of course, was that by focusing on juicing the Dow, we left ourselves making no infrastructure investment, hollowed out our healthcare (and pandemic response teams), trashed supply chains, and ultimately made the current crash far worse. It was the financial equivalent of an amphetamine high, followed inevitably by a crash.

When we're done, we will be around $10 trillion in the hole under Trump's watch.

Worse yet, I suspect very little of the debt giveaways will produce assets with a real return on investment. One can still go to National Parks and find structures built with Federal debt to employ people during the Depression.

The debt we incurred in WWII made the world a better place and brought us decades of later growth.

Look at Trump's Cabinet and the lobbyists who crafted and are crafting the trillion dollar give-aways to figure out who is going to be enriched.

What do you think the finance companies are going to create of enduring value? Derivatives on derivatives?

How about the pharma companies already using us as cash cows - at near 2x the average first world spend. Lots of bright people - many hoping to add value. But the overall system simply isn't aimed at health - but rather extracting wealth from the US economy. Trump has, of course, done nothing to advance the state of healthcare in the US.

The fossil fuels industry has already bought a retreat from climate accords and environmental regulation -- while soaking up investment tax breaks to take our natural gas, pump it to ports, liquify it, and send abroad to the highest payer. What will their enduring legacy be? Just a few more aircraft carriers to make the world safe for oil tankers? Denying climate effects all the way, as we add more trillions of cost to deal with spills, coastal infrastructure shattered, searing heat and wildfires in some places and more powerful storms and floods in others? Or - for the climate change deniers -- maybe just pulling us into another several trillion $$$ Middle East war?

As noted before, Trump cares about himself. Not you. Not me. He'd throw his brother under the bus if it served him. Huawei a threat? No problem about those sanctions Chairman Xi. or any of our tariffs, if you'll just fix my problem with farmers.

Really care about shipping jobs overseas? Not if it's Trump banded trinkets the Chinese are making. How about hiring illegals - them being all murderers and rapists? More than happy to have them build his properties, clean the rooms, carry your bags.

Looking ahead, the big issue is who will dominate the industries and jobs of the future? Given that we're gutting education and infrastructure and don't seem to have a clue where to invest in R&D -- it's no slam dunk it will once again be the U.S.
 
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