OT- Semi Trlr Fire, Criminal Stupidity, Christmas Miracle

[Paolo_MD]

I'm pretty sure the fire was caused by trailer brakes, either he forgot to release them at last stop, or leak or other reason they engaged, all the tires were on fire when I arrived on the scene. I did consider possibility of the brakes engaging and forcing him to stop, but do not see any skid marks, so its hard to say. Nothing but open highway north of here, I think it was one of those situations that with enough airflow the flames were kept minimal, as he slowed down coming into town the flames grew until he, or maybe the truck behind him could see the flames. Don't think it was intentional, just poor judgement.

Friend burned a truck and trailer to the ground once, he forgot to release trailer brakes, by the time he noticed he was on fire the trailer was burning well, he stopped and pulled pin to drop trailer, but I'm guessing lost too much air and then the truck would not move, it was a total loss.

I was indeed looking at the pictures to see if there were skid marks. Given that the weather was very cold, it could be that the flames developed only after he stopped.

It looks like you arrived on the scene rather late. It is all possible that just one brake was overheating and the other tires caught on fire later on. Especially if only partially engaged (e.g. leaking diaphragm of a spring chamber), it's somehow difficult to notice it on a heavy load.

It's very hard, if not impossible, to see smoke in your rear view mirrors during the night.
If the trailer had an air leak when it came to a stop and all the emergency brakes became engaged, it is practically impossible to move it anymore.

One thing that surprises me is that the driver took the time of lowering the landing gear. It doesn't make much sense (who cares if a doomed trailer get further damaged by dropping when the tractor moves away from under it), or it fit the profile of the stupid driver. But, again, it's hard to judge, not being in that situation.

At least for me it's impossible to judge if it was stupidity or the perfect storm. I would bet that he has a long list of questions to answer to DOT: an audible air leak, malfunction of emergency brake valves, inability of the compressor to fill the air tanks to maximum pressure within a given time, etc. are all out of service conditions. Each commercial driver is required to perform a pre-trip safety inspection before starting driving with the vehicle (and every morning, in multi-day trips), and a post-trip inspection when he arrives (or at the end of each day). Those inspections and possible defects must be logged (nowadays electronically).

Now, let's clarify a little bit the basics of how the air breaks are supposed to work on a tractor trailer.

The two air brake circuits are kept between 100 and 125 (in some trucks 150) psi: when the pressure drops below 100-110 psi, the compressor kicks in.
If the air pressure in either of the two redundant systems drops below 60 psi, a buzzer sounds continuously and a red light shines on the dashboard. If the pressure keeps dropping, any time between 40 and 25 psi the two emergency brake valves (first the red trailer valve, then the yellow tractor valve) pop out, closing the air supply from the air tanks to the spring brakes and bleeding any extra air downstream, resulting in the spring brakes on one or more drive axles on the tractor (steering wheels do not have spring brakes) and the brakes on one or more of the trailer axles to lock up.
The trailer valve has also another function: if there is a massive air leak on the trailer (e.g. emergency brakes glad hand coming loose, trailer emergency brake line severed, rusted-out spring chamber exploding, etc.), the valve pops out immediately, preventing the tractor's air system to lose too much air.
The emergency brakes of a truck are also the parking brakes: since they are activated by springs, they do not need any air supply to work making them perfect for long term engagement.

One inconvenience of truck's drum brakes is that, with a little rusting, cold weather, etc. sometimes they don't release after being engaged for long enough.

Regarding explosives, their transport is highly regulated (on the top of the normal hazmat rules, the driver must follow a filed route, stop only at specific locations, never leave the vehicle, call specific numbers in case of delays or breakdowns, etc.).
For DOT explosives are classified according to their reactivity (1.1 being the most dangerous and 1.6 the least reactive). They are also divided in-I believe-13 compatibility groups, which dictates what explosives could be shipped together on the same truck. If I remember correctly, any "primary explosive" (compatibility group A) can be shipped only with other primary explosives and nothing else. Blasting caps belong to compatibility group B (they can be of different classes, mostly 1.1 or 1.4, depending upon their reactivity). So, I confirm that they cannot be shipped together.

 

[john.k]

All I ever do is walk around and hit each tire with a length of 3/4 bar to check for inflation and flats...Wheel bearing seizures are fairly common here because even the best seals (Scotseals) cant keep out the fine bulldust ,and the stuff packs in like weld......Wheel bearing seizures happen so quick ,no monitoring system would work.... with oil hubs,you sometimes see the plug in the cover missing,and often see oil smudges for the plug leaking.

 

[moonlight machine]

All I ever do is walk around and hit each tire with a length of 3/4 bar to check for inflation and flats...Wheel bearing seizures are fairly common here because even the best seals (Scotseals) cant keep out the fine bulldust ,and the stuff packs in like weld......Wheel bearing seizures happen so quick ,no monitoring system would work.... with oil hubs,you sometimes see the plug in the cover missing,and often see oil smudges for the plug leaking.

The only semi's I deal with are race car haulers. The tires are not open like on a normal semi, but are closed in by belly boxes in front and the liftgate mechanicals behind the wheels so everything runs hot, tires don't last more than a season or so. The trailers are heavy, running at or very close to maximum weight. About once a year one catches fire, last spring one teams trailer caught fire about 15 miles from the track in St Petersburg Florida. It had the old oil type bearings and the oil leaked out, next thing it is on fire. The drivers dropped the trailer and the fire dept. got there right quick so the cars and equipment only were smoke damaged. Lots of extra work for the team and then the virus cancelled the race anyway.

 

[EmGo]

The trailers are heavy, running at or very close to maximum weight.

How do they do that ? A trailer gets about 60,000 lbs, the haulers for sprint cars are so light they don't even need real CDL's and the tractor has to be built with ultra-light springs or they'd beat your kidneys to death .... are you guys dragging around contraband under the floor ? Depleted uranium or something ?

 

[moonlight machine]

How do they do that ? A trailer gets about 60,000 lbs, the haulers for sprint cars are so light they don't even need real CDL's and the tractor has to be built with ultra-light springs or they'd beat your kidneys to death .... are you guys dragging around contraband under the floor ? Depleted uranium or something ?

The trailers are stupid heavy and then you add an insane double deck timing stand, fuel rig, big old Taylor Dunn V twin powered pit truck, 2 scooters for the drivers ad nauseum. The BMW sports car team brings 3 semis to each race, all at max weight.

 

[EmGo]

The trailers are stupid heavy and then you add an insane double deck timing stand, fuel rig, big old Taylor Dunn V twin powered pit truck, 2 scooters for the drivers ad nauseum. The BMW sports car team brings 3 semis to each race, all at max weight.

That's weird, cuz sprinters bring a couple of cars, several engines, enough tools to rebuild anything they need to, spare chassis, spare rear ends, tires up the wazoo, quads, fuel, and god knows what else and still don't have to use real tractors. And fuellers the same, hell, they have enough equipment to rebuild the engines between every run and their rigs are still the lightweight ones.

Peculiar !

 

[moonlight machine]

That's weird, cuz sprinters bring a couple of cars, several engines, enough tools to rebuild anything they need to, spare chassis, spare rear ends, tires up the wazoo, quads, fuel, and god knows what else and still don't have to use real tractors. And fuellers the same, hell, they have enough equipment to rebuild the engines between every run and their rigs are still the lightweight ones.

Peculiar !

You know how much a lista weighs? How about 30 of them down each side of the trailer? On a "Featherlite" the two pocket doors at the back of the trailer weigh 70 lbs each. And they hang on kitchen cabinet quality sliders till the team gets tired of them falling off all the time. Hey what do you want for 300K? All that fancy interior is 3/4 or 1" particle board with formica on both sides. 40KW diesel generator, Screw compressor, AC for the lounge area over the 5th wheel. AC for the rest of the trailer. Full length 2,nd floor for the cars. Liftgate with enough ass to lift a 2500 lb race car. Yes they are within 1000lbs of max every time they leave the shop. It is important to load the same way each time so as not to have a heavy axle. If you have a heavy axle the driver gets to unload in the scale parking lot and shift some weight. He loves when that happens! You can bet he is paying attention on load day!

 

[gbent]

One thing that surprises me is that the driver took the time of lowering the landing gear. It doesn't make much sense (who cares if a doomed trailer get further damaged by dropping when the tractor moves away from under it), or it fit the profile of the stupid driver. But, again, it's hard to judge, not being in that situation.

Many tractors have a brace across the frame behind the 5th wheel. If you try to drop a trailer without extending the landing gear the king pin will hang up on this brace.

Its easy to Monday morning quarterback this thing, but the orange line isn't known for good drivers or good driver pay.

Old industry joke: What color does Schneider paint the curb side of the cab? Nobody knows, no one ever sees that side of the truck. Joke left over from when they had 55 mph governors years after the speed limit was increased. Driver retention got so bad from slow trucks they finally relented and raised the governed speed.

 

[PeteM]

There's the sliver lining, Dalmation gal.

Looks like Marcos, TX is going to make the list of America's 100 most interesting places to live this year? Cozy neighborhood bar. At least one cool person to report on the place. Something exciting happens every now and then . . . Hope you enjoy the best in 2021.

 

[EmGo]

... they are within 1000lbs of max every time they leave the shop. It is important to load the same way each time so as not to have a heavy axle. If you have a heavy axle the driver gets to unload in the scale parking lot and shift some weight. He loves when that happens! You can bet he is paying attention on load day!

Moon, I'm looking here

Gooseneck Trailers | Efficient Trailers to Haul the Cars - Millennium Trailers

which are your typical race car trailers, and I see three axles rated at 7,000 lbs apiece. That's a long way from the 60,000 that a commercial double-drop can drag.

Are those guys buying real commercial trailers and rebuilding them for race cars ? I have not seen that ....

 

[john.k]

I knew a couple of these guys........fleet maintenance couldnt get credit to buy a box of bolts ,boss had three professional video crews making a doco of his racing "career"...

 

[moonlight machine]

Moon, I'm looking here

Gooseneck Trailers | Efficient Trailers to Haul the Cars - Millennium Trailers

which are your typical race car trailers, and I see three axles rated at 7,000 lbs apiece. That's a long way from the 60,000 that a commercial double-drop can drag.

Are those guys buying real commercial trailers and rebuilding them for race cars ? I have not seen that ....

These guys start with a brand new 53' low deck semi and build from there.
CONCEPT TRANSPORTERS

Race Transporters '-' Car Haulers '-' Featherlite Specialty

Indy Car, NASCAR and top level IMSA teams use this type of hauler, you will never see a gooseneck or toter home at this level.

 

[EmGo]

Indy Car, NASCAR and top level IMSA teams use this type of hauler, you will never see a gooseneck or toter home at this level.

Ah, what a waste of money. Partially explains why the racing is so shitty. The sanctioning bodies should do something about that ... a claiming rule on transporters, heh heh heh

 

[moonlight machine]

Ah, what a waste of money. Partially explains why the racing is so shitty. The sanctioning bodies should do something about that ... a claiming rule on transporters, heh heh heh

Yeah 300K is a pile of money for a trailer, but it would take a fleet of goosenecks to haul all the crap they take to the races now days.

 

[Milland]

Yeah 300K is a pile of money for a trailer, but it would take a fleet of goosenecks to haul all the crap they take to the races now days.

[Slight drift, sorry]

I want to reincarnate Colin Chapman and have him take over the FIA. Then have him rule that all F1 cars must run a 3L NA V8, all else is is open (well, with a minimum weight and safety standards per current regs, and no hazardous metals (BeCu, depleted uranium, etc)).

Zombie Chapman would bring back real racin'!

 

[moonlight machine]

[Slight drift, sorry]

I want to reincarnate Colin Chapman and have him take over the FIA. Then have him rule that all F1 cars must run a 3L NA V8, all else is is open (well, with a minimum weight and safety standards per current regs, and no hazardous metals (BeCu, depleted uranium, etc)).

Zombie Chapman would bring back real racin'!

The most important addition to this rule book. Each car is allowed 15' of wire in total, use it any way you wish.

 

[Milland]

The most important addition to this rule book. Each car is allowed 15' of wire in total, use it any way you wish.

No worries. I'll spec 15' of 0000 heavy cable, and a couple dozen rolls of small shrink tubing. I'm set!!

Either that, or you'll wind up with a diesel F1 car...

 

[moonlight machine]

No worries. I'll spec 15' of 0000 heavy cable, and a couple dozen rolls of small shrink tubing. I'm set!!

Either that, or you'll wind up with a diesel F1 car...

15 lineal feet of wire as it sits on the grid. that will get you 8 spark plug wires with enough to go from the magneto to the kill switch.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

I was indeed looking at the pictures to see if there were skid marks. Given that the weather was very cold, it could be that the flames developed only after he stopped.

It looks like you arrived on the scene rather late. It is all possible that just one brake was overheating and the other tires caught on fire later on. Especially if only partially engaged (e.g. leaking diaphragm of a spring chamber), it's somehow difficult to notice it on a heavy load.

It's very hard, if not impossible, to see smoke in your rear view mirrors during the night.
If the trailer had an air leak when it came to a stop and all the emergency brakes became engaged, it is practically impossible to move it anymore.

One thing that surprises me is that the driver took the time of lowering the landing gear. It doesn't make much sense (who cares if a doomed trailer get further damaged by dropping when the tractor moves away from under it), or it fit the profile of the stupid driver. But, again, it's hard to judge, not being in that situation.

At least for me it's impossible to judge if it was stupidity or the perfect storm. I would bet that he has a long list of questions to answer to DOT: an audible air leak, malfunction of emergency brake valves, inability of the compressor to fill the air tanks to maximum pressure within a given time, etc. are all out of service conditions. Each commercial driver is required to perform a pre-trip safety inspection before starting driving with the vehicle (and every morning, in multi-day trips), and a post-trip inspection when he arrives (or at the end of each day). Those inspections and possible defects must be logged (nowadays electronically).

Now, let's clarify a little bit the basics of how the air breaks are supposed to work on a tractor trailer.

The two air brake circuits are kept between 100 and 125 (in some trucks 150) psi: when the pressure drops below 100-110 psi, the compressor kicks in.
If the air pressure in either of the two redundant systems drops below 60 psi, a buzzer sounds continuously and a red light shines on the dashboard. If the pressure keeps dropping, any time between 40 and 25 psi the two emergency brake valves (first the red trailer valve, then the yellow tractor valve) pop out, closing the air supply from the air tanks to the spring brakes and bleeding any extra air downstream, resulting in the spring brakes on one or more drive axles on the tractor (steering wheels do not have spring brakes) and the brakes on one or more of the trailer axles to lock up.
The trailer valve has also another function: if there is a massive air leak on the trailer (e.g. emergency brakes glad hand coming loose, trailer emergency brake line severed, rusted-out spring chamber exploding, etc.), the valve pops out immediately, preventing the tractor's air system to lose too much air.
The emergency brakes of a truck are also the parking brakes: since they are activated by springs, they do not need any air supply to work making them perfect for long term engagement.

One inconvenience of truck's drum brakes is that, with a little rusting, cold weather, etc. sometimes they don't release after being engaged for long enough.

I could see no signs of skid marks the next day, after the cleanup there is so much soot on the road, including several hundred feet behind the trailer, its impossible to tell.

I was on the scene shortly after he stopped, it was my phone that got there late. After the firetrucks exhausted the water they carry, and the fire was not out, I ran back to the house to call the owner and get some warmer clothes, the pics are from the flare up and after they got connected to hydrant.

I drove a rig for a few years in the 90's, forgot to release trailer brakes a few times myself, but always caught my mistake within a few miles, never burned up a trailer. With all the technology in newer trucks is it still possible to forget trailer brakes? Seems like it would be possible to integrate them so they disengage together, or an alarm goes off. If a brake line is leaking is it possible the compressor can keep up while running at speed, yet as he slowed down coming into town it no longer could? Of course that would mean his tires caught on fire after just a mile, and from personal experience that is not enough distance.

The pictures survived unscathed, I will get some more pics once the new windows are in (too dark with boarded windows), the researcher that is studying the servicemen/women has already digitized most of the collection, just a display case or 2 left to finish.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

There's the sliver lining, Dalmation gal.

Looks like Marcos, TX is going to make the list of America's 100 most interesting places to live this year? Cozy neighborhood bar. At least one cool person to report on the place. Something exciting happens every now and then . . . Hope you enjoy the best in 2021.

The McGill Club is in McGill Nevada, you will have to look at a map to find it. I'm waiting on the boom to hit San Marcos, my shop there is an island in a "Master Planned" future community, I'm holding out for a dump truck of $$$$$$, at some point the dirt track/salvage yard has got to go. I'm told there is a classic old bar not too far from the Tx shop, but it has a rough clientele and is generally referred to as "Little Vietnam".