OT-Top bucket list item.....secured. ParkTrain nut story

[DDoug]

Did the real (full sized OEM) use a fluid coupling and worm gears ?

 

[EmGo]

Did the real (full sized OEM) use a fluid coupling and worm gears ?

No, they use ground spur gears and if you consider electricity as a sort of 'flow-of-electrons', kind of

If'n I wuz going to redesign the wheel here, I'd think about a really sloppy hydraulic drive, so it built up to speed and coasted when you let off ... give it some pretense of the mass of a real train.

You can actually make wormgears that will back-drive. No idea if these do that, but it'd be more realistic. There used to be cars and trucks that used wormgears in the final drive.

Probably easiest to just redo the original setup ? But if the spur gears are bornked, easy enough to replace with helicals, make that noise go away. Only cheapskates use spur gears

 

[DDoug]

So you could probably scour HGR for some "battery truck" forklift drive motors, maybe even the walkies would be big enough.

 

[EmGo]

So you could probably scour HGR for some "battery truck" forklift drive motors, maybe even the walkies would be big enough.

That'd be kind of cool ... an alternator, a couple of batteries, and a forklift drive motor ? Very prototypical !

Probably more reliable than the original stuff, too.

The 3-73 is out, tho. I think they are around 1200 lbs.

 

[DDoug]

That'd be kind of cool ... an alternator, a couple of batteries, and a forklift drive motor ? Very prototypical !

Probably more reliable than the original stuff, too.

The 3-73 is out, tho. I think they are around 1200 lbs.

While they made a bunch of 2-71's I did see a 2-53 on a welder once, it was tiny.

If your going for realism, you've got to have clacking, arcing, and sparking contactors eh ?

 

[EmGo]

While they made a bunch of 2-71's I did see a 2-53 on a welder once, it was tiny.

They even built a few 2-51's. No valves, strictly two-stroke. According to rumours the program had to be stopped when it woke the dead and they had to fight off a zombie infestation.

Maybe not practical

 

[Bill D]

AFAIK all the narrow guage mine locomotives are solid frame not trucks that could be used under your engine. Wonder how small narrow gauge street car trucks were.
Bill D.

 

[DDoug]

They even built a few 2-51's. No valves, strictly two-stroke. According to rumours the program had to be stopped when it woke the dead and they had to fight off a zombie infestation.

Maybe not practical

If'n he would buy the complete welder (it was a Lincoln SA-200) he would be half way done.

 

[cnctoolcat]

I would probably keep the existing drive system in the F3A.

To get more “throaty” sound, maybe you could gear-down the motor/drive, so the motor would have to rev higher for relative speeds?

ToolCat

 

[EmGo]

I would probably keep the existing drive system in the F3A.

Maybe depends on condition ? If it's bad, could be easier to do something different and get better results at the same time. I like digger's idea, actually.

To get more “throaty” sound, maybe you could gear-down the motor/drive, so the motor would have to rev higher for relative speeds?

V4 is good, short, has a rumbly exhaust note, aircoled is good, less complexity, Wisconsin doesn't sound too bad

https://youtu.be/9BQm7ieAKX0

but I'd go the other way. Locomotives have a big-motor sound, they aren't spinners. Big-ass flywheel so it can idle lower, work with the exhaust to accentuate the lower notes ... that kind of thing.

Are we having fun, laying out dkmc's work for him ?

 

[GregSY]

Kubota 3 cylinder diesel. Noisy, smoky, compact....perfect for a small train.

 

[dkmc]

You guys are cracking me up and providing some great ideas as well! The V4 barely fits inside the body, there is no room for anything else other than maybe a small V twin or baby Kubota. Or maybe 2 V twins coupled together! I am going to try to keep it as original as possible and practical. I found a manual for the Wisconsin online and I was both surprised and disappointed to learn that they don't have pressure oiling to the crankshaft. There's a low pressure (5-6 psi) oil pump that sends oil out to a tube running along the crankcase with jets aimed at each con rod. The rods have an oil hole that the oil stream hits. Must be it finds it's way in....? The rest is splash. Pretty hoakey. Apparently it works.

So after unloading I learned that the engine with independently swiveling trucks, and worm drive axle boxes does not lend itself AT ALL to being rolled across the shop floor. I needed a quick dolly to set it on and roll it into a corner.

A 3 mile trip to Harbor fright, a couple dolly's, 2x4's and short 4x4 blocks, and it's a roller.

 

[dkmc]

Kubota 3 cylinder diesel. Noisy, smoky, compact....perfect for a small train.

I've got one of those in my mower. It's quiet, smoke free and reminds me of an electric motor. Boring actually.

 

[Bill D]

The model railroad types would install a loud speaker and generate sound effects based on engine rpm. Sound sway better then a playing card on bicycle spokes.
Bill D

 

[dkmc]

I had a closer look at the V4 this evening for the first time. It does turn over, compression on 2 cylinders, slight on 1 and none on the last one. The plug from that last cylinder was also slightly rusty. I shot some diesel-ATF mix in each cylinder. The one obvious problem is the distributor rotor turns free and is not connected to anything. The valves move so the cam is turning. Someone said the roll pin on the drive gear tends to break, I'm hoping that's it. I plan to pull the engine out of the locomotive and attempt to start it before the snow flies. We'll see how laughable that plan turns out to be.

 

[rogertoolmaker]

I've always had an interest in model trains. I got a Lionel train for Christmas when I was 4 back in 1964. The next summer we went to a regional amusement park (Roseland) and that's when I first laid eyes on the parks Miniature Train, and got to ride it. As any "train nut" can attest to, it was love at first sight. That train was built by the Miniature Train Company in Rensselaer IN. They were a faithful scaled down copy of a General Motors F3 Diesel.

A picture of the Roseland Park Train in Canandaguia, NY sometime back in the 1950's?

View attachment 329566

Fast forward 40? years......

So back in the late '90's I began researching these Miniature Train Company trains again. Historic company information suggests there were 240 built, about 70 survive, and around 50 of the 70 are in operating condition. Any I found for sale were way.....way beyond my ever thinking about owning one, including the basket case abused ones. On one of the forums back in the day, I heard about there being 'some' in Mansfield, PA at a campground. I checked it out, and went there, talked to the owner and rode their train. First time since Roseland about 40 years prior. It was.... very.... cool. And since then I've been to Knobles and rode their magnificent "Pioneer" trains, a collection of steam outline and G16 "Diesel" F3 locomotives as well. Dreams live on, real possibilities fade.

But recently, a train for sale popped up on Marketplace, the usual rough condition, and with a $20k price. Yes, they do sell for those prices even in rough condition. I saw it sit on Marketplace for weeks. Then I inquired about it, and found out it is a remnant of the campground in Mansfield, Pa, owned and recently sold by the son of the deceased former owner. We conversed, and I told him about visiting the camp years ago. As we spoke and reminisced, I could tell he understood my keen interest in these trains and told me I should just come have a look. So I did. He prodded me to 'make an offer' but I said I didn't want to insult him, and declined.

I couldn't stop thinking about it, and finally actually made an offer that was somewhat less than the asking price. I thought I'd get a 'laugh off' and a 'thanks but no thanks' reply. But he came back with a surprising counter offer. Bottom line, we were actually able to meet at a middle ground figure.......

And (I still cannot believe it) but I am now the owner of a Miniature Train Co. train set, engine and 3 cars! Including the rear Observation car.

View attachment 329567


View attachment 329568

A lot of work will be required to bring this equipment back into operating condition. But to me, that is half the fun. Some engineering upgrades and improvements along the way will be even more interesting.

The data plate is missing on this train set, and the build number isn't in the placards on the engine nose. No other way to know it's history, other than (luckily) the name on the side still being readable and not painted over or worn off.

In 1999 I sent for an information package on the Miniature Train Company. Included was a list of sales to customers from back in the day. So last night after a hectic day of loading and hauling I sat down and went thru the list. Sure enough, train set 920 was sold to Camp Baumann in November 1957. As silly as it sounds, that was a very cool and even a bit of an emotional moment to actually see it listed in the roster from all those years ago. I was very tired as well......that's my excuse. ha! To me, these trains represent Americana, and that gets me excited when I think about the past.

After Retiring I built a 4-8-2 Steam Locomotive. (2)
Diesel style and (1) Electric Locomotive in 1/8 scale. I ran the engines at a local model railroad; "Big Creek & Southern Railroad". This a fine private 25000 foot railroad.
Roger

 

[DDoug]

After Retiring I built a 4-8-2 Steam Locomotive. (2)
Diesel style and (1) Electric Locomotive in 1/8 scale. I ran the engines at a local model railroad; "Big Creek & Southern Railroad". This a fine private 25000 foot railroad.
Roger

Isn't the overhead catenary a hazard ? ....

 

[ponderingjunkman]

I'd like to see a shot of the Wisconsin! They are great engines and if they are odd firing(flat crank) they sound great! They tend to have valves that stick open when sitting, which sounds like what's going on. Carbon will flake off and hold it open too. Pull the sump and clean the sludge. I like magnetos better than the distributor, but you don't get the meager charge capacity without a generator. I'm assuming there is electric start-

 

[Servicar rider]

I'd like to see a shot of the Wisconsin! They are great engines and if they are odd firing(flat crank) they sound great! They tend to have valves that stick open when sitting, which sounds like what's going on. Carbon will flake off and hold it open too. Pull the sump and clean the sludge. I like magnetos better than the distributor, but you don't get the meager charge capacity without a generator. I'm assuming there is electric start-

I wouldn't say they were great engines? I worked on them at one time as my neighbor was a Wisconsin dealer and brought me lots of cylinders to bore and many broken head bolts to drill out. The blocks were made of very soft cast iron and especially on one side wore very badly. Not uncommon to have to bore them bigger than what Wisconsin made pistons for. The dealer always wanted to use factory parts and hated buying bigger aftermarket pistons! I think .030 was the biggest piston the factory offered. Stuck valves and broken headbolts were common. The soft iron rusted badly and I've seen some cylinders with most of the cooling fins corroded away. At one time they sold well because they offered a size range not covered by other manufacturers?

 

[dkmc]

Stuck valves and broken headbolts were common.

Any idea why so many broken head bolts?