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OT - Well I fell for the Rent to own scheme machine shop style

Mmtz

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Location
San Carlos, MX
Or so I feel like I did.

I'm 32 years old and I've got involved on a new/startup machine shop back on June 2012. Back then they were already 2 1/2 years old, with a couple CNC lathes and couple VF4's.

When I started I was taking over the programming dept as they still didn't have a full time programmer and so I came from another shop after 2 1/2 years there. I was pretty excited as I have always dreamed of having my own shop and this oportunity looked like a good start to that path as like I said I was promissed a piece of the pie, having it be always up to discussion on different numbers from 10% of the bussiness. So with this promise and 2 other ''partners'' with one at 10% and another one at 20% of the shares, I felt like a happy camper to have found such a great deal.

The majoritary owner has been a salesman on a non related field for about 15 years and saw their clients needed a lot a machined parts so knowing there was an oportunity he took the jump and founded the company with absolutely no experience at all about machining, machine shop enviroment and manufacturing what so ever. I had been a CNC programmer for 11 years, but have also been a Mfg engineer, Engineering manager and Plant Manager for other companies before so after a couple months there I get "promoted" to oversee the company as the ''Engineering manager'' then a couple months later I get put on charge as the ''General manager''. I was doing all the estimating, customer and suppliers contact, production scheduling and labor routing design along with all the 3D design and reverse engineering of new parts when needed as well as CNC programming when our new programmer, hired on December (because and I quote '' I just can't have no back up for you'') would not show up or would mess or couldn't figure out a part.

None of this mess gets ever put on paper neither was any promotions announced around the shop as it being a small shop well everyone pretty much knew everybodys roll; pay was also never increased at the excuse of ''the company is still growing, don't have the money yet but don't worry it'll come and then you'll see it!''

By this time I worked my ass off with regular weeks being well over 72 hours/week on 6 days so I decide to cut it off some and go back to only 5 days a week but still get to work over 65 hrs every week. I somehow managed to help keep a steady growth thru out the time and the last machine count was up to 5 CNC lathes and 4 CNC mills, a long with a brand new WEDM and went from a 6 - 7 people 1 shift shop to 18 heads on 2 shifts.

Company grew 55% by the end of 2012, then double that number by the end of 2013 and it's looking good to double again by the end of this year, having already hit almost 80% of last years numbers by the end of this month. By this time we are already talking on the few Mill figures.

We talked about signing papers on and off several times and it never got anywhere. We also had several arguments over time and his comment was always that he could not believe nor understand why I wouldn't trust him. I have always been deemed for being to rude to people but I just can't stand to tell people something if it ain't the truth just to please them even if it sounds rough and so I once told him I didn't trust him and he fell pretty offended by it.

So after all the long hours, lost weekends, using my personal truck for deliveries and pickups when we didn't have a company truck and even after when it wasn't available, I decided that it was about time to get something on paper just in case so Tuesday last week I told him I wanted to talk to him and as usual he wants to go out for lunch to talk about it, I say no, I don't like talking bussiness in public places, he is used that trick before as he knows it being a neutral public place even if it means going to McDonalds, pretty much guarantees nobody will go to excited and will keep things civilized.

We leave it up for the end of the day and that was it. So 5:30 comes around and he says he's got to go home, he had a long day before and just needs to get there so I say fine but I would still like to talk to you. He's recently divorced so he leaves alone and tells me to come on by his house when I'm done at the shop so around 8:30 PM I got on my truck and head to his place. We talked about what I thought and how I felt it was about time something legal was done about it and he tells me he agrees and how much he appreciattes my effort and everything I've done for the company and around 12 AM we pack it up and say good night. So talking to him in private was my 1st mistake.

Come Wednesday morning he is on a bad mood so as usual we all leave him alone as we know how bad he can get (At least I thought I had seen his worse) and he don't say much then we get on an argument because it's almost 3 PM, I haven't eat lunch and I need to go see a supplier for a special rework job of parts we didn't even make and he promissed to have it done by the 28th but the process needed is not made in house so I have to go! Still he gets to yell at me because I tell him I had to go, I still hadn't got my lunch and I'm trying to leave know. He tells me he needs me to modify a print and make a PO on quickbooks he can tell I didn't like it and yells at me It's not his fault I hadn't eaten yet and don't you even worry about that PO, I'll type it in for you so I say no you won't, then he keeps yelling like a child how he is so much better and he writes so many emails everyday and he can outtype me before I even open the software to what I finally had to respond '' No you won't'' and he keept on rambling to what I respond ''that order was done in the morning'', isn't this ridiculous?

So I get on my way for my 40 miles drive accross town and I left him on the shop all mad and by the time I get back he's gone. Come Thursday he is on an even worst mood and barely even talked the whole day. Around 6 PM I found him on the hall, he tells me he is leaving and I say OK and just so you know I may not coming tomorrow morning, we were going camping for the weekend and have some things to do but I'll try to come in. He says fine awesome, have a nice trip and such to what I say '' so are we just going to pretend nothing happend yesterday'' and his face got all red starts yelling at me for not caring about him and how he has to go, his kids are home because he has them that night but I don't care about his needs and his family. I got all upset but remember I have always been told to just breath, be polite and tell him OK, we'll talk about it tomorrow (after all he is the boss).

I tried to shake his hand and say ''please go home'' and he pulls it out from me to what I put my hand out again and repeat''please go home, we'll talk about it tomorrow'', he is all hyped out and trows his briefcase, computer and things on the floor and starts trying to have a fight with me, seriously getting in front of my face with his fists ready and I can't do any better than stand there and put up with another 30 minutes of yelling and holding myself the best I could to not punch him on the face while just repeating ''please go home you are to upset, we'll talk about it tomorrow''. He finally leaves still screaming and hollering about this incident and I get all depressed, since I knew exactly what was coming, so I leave talk to my wife about it and tell her to be ready, I think the end is near. This was strike 2.

Lastly, Friday morning I get back to work, and get to doing my thing then he comes to my office and asks me about the order I went to drop off Wednesday and I tell him ''I don't have an answer yet, I'm waiting 'til it is 8:30 so I can call them'' he just says ''don't worry about it, I'll call them'' and leaves the shop for about 1 hr. I texted him and asked him what did they say and got no reply. About 30 minutes go back and he asks about another order and I say let me check with them and again get the same response from him to not worry and he'll get it done and nothing else, not a single word.

I then decided that he was going to be like that all day so I walk to his door and ask him if there is anything else he needs me to do there and again he goes balistic about what kind of a stupid question is that and such for about another 20 minutes 'til the point I fell he is about to get to the same level as the day before so I walk out and call the other 2 ''partners'' so they can help me make him calm down. As soon as they show up he starts yelling that he is not gonna behave any different in front of others and I tell him '' no but I need you to calm down, I don't want you to get like yesterday night'', keeps yelling and hitting his desk, grabs a glass from there and smashes it to the wall, the pieces fall on the ground, he bumps out his chair and starts stomping on them to make sure it was pulverized, jumps close to my face to yell at me I'm a fking liar, you try to fight me yesterday and I can only say '' man I just told you to go home''. He keeps yelliing how a liar I am and how I pulled him and confronted him while the other guys keep on holding him and getting in the middle as he really wants to punch me while I can only say '' No I didn't'' and I which those security cameras on the hall were working so you could see how you reacted''.

This yelling, breaking and hollering kept going for another 3 Hours! 'til he finally walks out his office to walk it off I guess. I'm all
turned down and depressed and just tells the other 2 guys and the programmer which for that time was also trying to hold him to please excuse me, I did my best and can't put up with that humilliation, that has been by far the worst humilliation I've stood on my whole life. Shoke their hands and told them I couldn't work for a guy who would just treat me like that and I hope they did good.

Got on the parking lot, jump on my truck and he comes out yelling if I'm quiting I just nood and say ''I'm sorry you feel that way about me, I realize you need something else'' and then he tells me that if I'm quiting I better get back to the shop , to help him out on the transition and to show him where everything is. I just told him I couldn't do it, I have things to do today and he then starts trying to convince me to come back and how he is always told me I was doing a great job to what I reply '' then how come you just told the three of us we had just done a piece of shit out of the shop'' and he is only answer was '' so you're gonna take that instead of the 100 times I told you you were doing great?''. We kept going back and forth for about 30 minutes and I never even turned my engine off. A customer he was waiting for finally shows up and he has to go to what I just tell him '' I have to go please call me if you need me''. And this strike 3.

I go out of town for the camping trip and felling like crap that day but still had a good time with my kids and family. On the other hand I kept on getting all the new Facebook post with the fishing trip he was having with the other 2 ''partners'' and their families...

I never got a call Tuesday and so I finally reach to one of the other ''partners'' and ask him to please ''ask the boss if he still needed me there for the transition, I would like to at least finish the week'', he says he would and after about 3 hours I finally get a text saying ''No we don't need anything, thanks'' to what I can only reply with a ''thanks''.

So after all this drama I can only say at least I learned something, and that's to never dissobey your insticts, they are trying to tell you something.

I really feel so stupid I fell for this scam from the beggining but feel even more a shamed that looking back into it, last week's turn was all just a setup and I fell straight on it. He could yell at me and try to tame me so I wouldn't ask about any legalities any more and even if I did ask again, he now had a excuse to say no to it because he now couldn't trust me anymore Or I could just walked out as I did which would just make it easier to get rid of me free of charge.

Now I need a new job and I probably can't use them as a reference, it also looks bad on my resume that I'm switching jobs again after only 2 years here and 2 years at the previous shop.

So it goes for all of you shop owners, how can I approach this whole story or go out for an interview without coming out like a resented employee? I really just want to leave it all behind, learn from the experience and move on, but I'm still worried about going out for an interview as I haven't really have one in almost 5 years, as I didn't get interviewed with them, they somehow found me and offered me the position.

Enough of my whining, Anybody have any recommendations for my upcoming interviews?

Thanks a lot everybody in advance!

P.S. Sorry for the looooooooong post, I bet is up on the rank for the longest single post on PM :o
 
Sounds like you wrote my story, took me 10years to see the light. I just gave him a copy " letter to Garcia" nd left ...... motorcoach in the dust...
 
So, they may have done you a favor. You would have worked there for a long time and never gotten anything in writing, working hard for the carrot which isn't really there. Now you don't have that problem and can move on.

You can also think of this like a rock-n-roll group. Many very successful ones break up over personal differences. But eventually it becomes clear who the talented individuals are as they tend to be able to continue on with other musicians.
 
I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today.....

We've all fallen for it. Wait a week or 2 and the same topic will come up here again....

Its ALWAYS bullshit.

"If you work for cheap, I'll give you part of the profits and a share of the company" BS!!!!

"If you work for cheap, I'll sell you the company for cheap in a year or two" BS!!!!!!!!!

Where ever you land, and I hope you land upside right, at least 6 of those 18 guys under you will be calling you
looking for a job..soon.... And if you play your cards right, you will be the "sub contractor" because there is nobody left
to deal with a screaming lunatic... And if you wait a bit longer, and save some, you can buy it all at auction.

Better to find out now at 32, instead of 15 years down the road, a few years from retirement.

You will get a call soon. Where is............, How do we.............., Can you show us how............. CASH IN ADVANCE, and not your
hourly rate, consulting rate, $75 to $150 an hour... IN ADVANCE!!!
 
With no non-disclosure or non-compete agreements, you can hit the ground running for either another shop or your own, with ready customer and vendor lists. Hard lesson learned, but you will be better for it.
 
Trust your ''first gut reaction'' every time I haven't, I've been burnt.

Hope things work out for you, it's a tough break but you're young enough to get over it.
 
There is always 2 sides to the story but it sounds like you weren't solid and up front and let him run wild. The first time it happened I would have told him never to do that again, you don't yell around here. If you need to yell go do it in a bucket of bleach mfker.
 
Sorry for the looooooooong post, I bet is up on the rank for the longest single post on PM

A bit over 2600 words, but maybe not a record. Recently I had a post on my forum (FRETS.NET) that ran more than 7,700. But then it did include the entire text of a 3200 word speech by Abraham Lincoln. . .
 
Well that just sucks, I agree.

Two things stick out to me in your story.
First: If you and your partners own less than 51% of the company, it means nothing unless you plan on going public in the future.
I know many who have fallen for this, never understood why. Must be an ego boost thing. You are just a employee at this point.

Second: Nothing like a divorce to screw a good man up. It can turn the best of them into complete maniacs.
It should always be a warning that your boss or co-worker is going to go off the deep end for a year or two no matter how much they claim otherwise.
"Oh, I'm fine with it", "This is the best thing for me"............ yea, right.
Bob
 
Well that just sucks, I agree.

Two things stick out to me in your story.
First: If you and your partners own less than 51% of the company, it means nothing unless you plan on going public in the future.
I know many who have fallen for this, never understood why. Must be an ego boost thing. You are just a employee at this point.

Second: Nothing like a divorce to screw a good man up. It can turn the best of them into complete maniacs.
It should always be a warning that your boss or co-worker is going to go off the deep end for a year or two no matter how much they claim otherwise.
"Oh, I'm fine with it", "This is the best thing for me"............ yea, right.
Bob

Third: Letting a business partner's wife or girlfriend get involved with running the business.
 
Is the shop actually making any money? Anything worth taking?

A verbal contract is still a contract. It might well be worth talking to a lawyer. You may be able to get some "go away" money. Or at least cause him some hassle.
 
Read up on the legal concept of promissory estoppel.

Also check your rights relative to the Texas wage/employment laws.
 
"go away" money. LOL You wont get squatt.... were you paid overtime for those, what were they 72 hr weeeks??..... my guess is no..
Were you given ANYTHING on paper prior to falling like a sucker for this so called oportunity???? again my is guess no...

By the way... you said it was a "rent to own" situation.... WHAT EXACTY was the "Rent" you paid??

Forgit about them, dust yourself off and go get a REAL J O B
 
I agree with Comatose, and you've got 2 more witnesses to the promise, which is something most people don't have.

While Carbide Bob is correct that you wouldn't have any real power if the 3 of you owned 40% of the business, the downside for him is that you can all get jobs elsewhere and still collect 40% of the profits unless he'd like to buy out your interest. John and Horace Dodge taught Henry Ford what minority owners can do to an asshole majority owner the better part of a hundred years ago.

You're also within the 3 yr statute of limitations to collect back wages. Unless you've been paid commensurate with your hours and responsibilities, him giving you a title doesn't necessarily mean your job met all the requirements of a salaried exempt job.

The first thing I'd do though is get back in there and make him fire me if he wants me gone, followed immediately by signing up for unemployment.

My guess is that this guy's divorce or family situation has nothing to do with his behavior. Much more likely that he's a lying wad of fucking pond scum who never had any intention of doing anything other than fucking over you and your 2 co-workers with his promises, and when you pressed the issue you got the reaction that's typical of these sub-human pieces of shit when cornered.
 
Local shop had a guy work for free. Over a year and not paid a nickel. In turn he was going to buy the shop with the wages he defered. Of course when the time came the owner sold the shop to his wife and he was told to start over. Instead he walked out and found a lawyer. Sued for back wages.

And won.
 
Just wondering why did you go at this one alone and not get your other coworkers to confront him with you?

I am sure if he is screwing you he is screwing them all too and since he doesn't sound like he is capable of running that place on his own he will need all of you to stay in business. At the same time if you and the other guys have a good working relationship both together and with his customers you may be able to leave him and take his work with you.

It sounds like at the very least you want them on your side in this one though it may be too far beyond salvage at this point and in the long run easier to just walk away from and move on with life. Who knows perhaps one of them has something from him in writing and 3 witnesses against one may hold some weight if you go the lawyer route.
 
Everyone goes through this scam once, its no big deal. You're only out a couple years, some guys cling to the fantasy for decades.

Never.............EVER work for startups or a small business.
 
Need Internet Glasses to read these long ones.My fingers are tired from all your typing.
BUT,
at least I did not have to struggle and read everything 3 times.Thanks for the good spelling (not perfect,but a joy compared to some) and all the other stuff we learned in school in English class.
 
I worked for a real dick once.......not the same as your situation.....however......after finally having enough of his emotional bull shit, telling everyone they sucked and how stupid we all were......constant screaming and tantrums I quit.....God that felt good. I had gotten to the point of having dreams about killing him, and would wake up smiling and happy RED FLAG lol.....any how...the next thing I did was after establishing myself as competent at the new shop I went to HR and asked if we were looking for any good machinist'. retribution #1 I was told absolutely yes. I called 3 of my buddies from the old place and long story less long......all 3 got hired. 3 of the 4 of us have been there for 20+ years now......retribution #2.....I have since worked my way into a position where I occasionally get consulted with some of the work we "job out" I have had the distinct privilege to explain to 3 different engineers why they should not award the contract to my former employer even though he was the most competitive bid. We job out quite a bit of work in our area.....he....will never win one bid so long as I have any influence. I only wish he knew why.......I later found out there are other guys at my current employer who also weathered the storm.
 








 
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