Paint Issues - On Topic

[Monarchist]

I hadn't heard of it until a few months ago. I've been using it on my LeBlond restoration (the one needing the gears we emailed back & forth about). I've been happy with it. It's basically the VOC's (plus some other things) that are missing from the new "low VOC" paints. Add VOC's back in and the paint flows a bit better and doesn't stiffen up so quickly.

I keep in around. I use it only if I must.

If Toluene, Xylol, Acetone etc. are 'reducers' than thin a paint, Flood Penetrol is sorta like ..."greasing" it?



You may find you need more coats to cover. Not always a bad thing, but still.

Bill

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

I hadn't heard of it until a few months ago. I've been using it on my LeBlond restoration (the one needing the gears we emailed back & forth about). I've been happy with it. It's basically the VOC's (plus some other things) that are missing from the new "low VOC" paints. Add VOC's back in and the paint flows a bit better and doesn't stiffen up so quickly.

LOL. Nice. "Hold on... we need to protect you from yourself. So you can longer have this widget. But for the low, low price of $XX, you can still have it if you really want it." Why do I feel offended right now...?

Thanks.

 

[specfab]

Well, at least I now know I'm not the only one who is "paint-challenged". I have very similar issues with brush painting these days, although I will say that I managed a quasi-decent job using Rustoleum Smoke Gray enamel on a small mag chuck a while back. I assume it was the paint, rather than the applicator...

 

[10 fingers]

RE: What gives? What am I doing wrong? How can I fix this?

We remanufacture enhanced accuracy machine tools providing an automotive quality paint surface. Have done enough of this long enough that we only use Sherwin Williams Polane. Either Polane B or HS depending on application. Using the simple, label mixtures and counter literature will yield an objectionable, orange peel finish. We do enough of this to have direct contact with SW paint chemists. Now purchase special reducers to slow dry time. Allows paint to "wet out" and deliver a very high gloss. Down side is it's prone to run on vertical surfaces. We generally use an HVLP system with applicable tip size to reduced viscosity, but hand brush internal cavities within castings for full coverage. With care, brush marks are barely discernible. Bottom line, most utility paints will fail when exposed to coolants and hot chips, easily chip, or peel and permanently stained by Dykem. I take pride in my work and my time is way too valuable to waste it using inferior products. If serious give me a call and I'll coach you thru exactly what's necessary to get results.

 

[cg285]

after reading the op's post i have come to the conclusion that his answer is at staples. it's called an easy button :-)

 

[Peter.]

ZK if your enamel paint is anything like the last enamel paint I used, it will work much better if you get it hot. Decant some into a smaller container adn stand that in very hot water. I found that it went on much nicer after getting this advice off the net.

 

[gadget73]

hm, warmed paint. I'll have to try that sometime. Thanks for the tip. Usually I seem to end up painting stuff when its not super warm out, so this would probably be a good idea. I have noticed that when its hot enough that I'm sweating bullets the paint goes real nice.

 

[rons]

The DuPont support number gave me a few ideas on how to improve my finishes. One of them was to fill a bucket with hot water and drop the paint and hardener cans into the water and let soak for 5-10 minutes. Then mix. Had some of the best mirror finishes, even on vertical hanging pieces. It was a warm day so warm paint deposits on warm metal. Have not tried it enough times to prove that it really makes much difference. A lot of other factors to consider too.

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

We remanufacture enhanced accuracy machine tools providing an automotive quality paint surface.
< snippage of good stuff >
If serious give me a call and I'll coach you thru exactly what's necessary to get results.

Don, I am pretty familiar with your work and I thank you for the offer. We've been playing tag for some time now, you and I, so I'll likely touch base anyway if for no other reason to say hi and thanks.

ZK if your enamel paint is anything like the last enamel paint I used, it will work much better if you get it hot. Decant some into a smaller container adn stand that in very hot water. I found that it went on much nicer after getting this advice off the net.

I may try this. Thank you.

I went to SW and bought the Penetrol. Damn quart is as much as the quart of paint. I also bought one of those sprayers and a second "cartridge" for it. Today, I took a few minutes, added yet more Acetone, & mixed the can up a bit again, and tried again. Sanded the paint down on the parts with rough paper to knock down the "raking" tree bark-like finish and then wet sanded that. Wiped it all down, and then brushed some of the new even thinner paint. I can tell already that it is the exact same result. It does go on better. But it just is not "flowing" or "evening out" like I believe it should ( and like you all have described ). Will try the paint with the Penetrol by brush, and then by spray and report back with results. Not sure if I will go back and do that tonight, or not. Oh, who am I kidding? I won't sleep until I do...

EDIT - I will point out that this is exactly part of why I hate paint... One should not need to buy loads of equipment and support equipment and mixes and additives, and all manner of crap to simply get a halfway decent, workable finish. I want my brain melting rattle cans and brush-ons of the 70's back.

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

Three-year old paint job on a skid steer

details to follow
Oil based implement enamel ,sprayed with HF 15 dollar gun

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Monarchist]

EDIT - I will point out that this is exactly part of why I hate paint...

It isn't 'paint' you hate. it is doing the same thing wrong with the wrong paint for the task over and over and expecting a different outcome.

One should not need to buy loads of equipment and support equipment and mixes and additives, and all manner of crap to simply get a halfway decent, workable finish.

No argument. We do not need to. Finish is way more than just 'half way' decent.

But it ain't assured with ignorant general-purpose porch and deck paint, no matter how much ju ju you aim at it.

Every major paint maker has one that works better than what you are playing with. S-W's is Polane. PPG, Dupont, Ditzler, Benjamin-Moore, Valspar, RustOleum.. they all have at least ONE that suits machinery.

VOC rules have made getting good results more expensive. Very much so. That ain't the same as impossible.

Bill

 

[edwin dirnbeck]

I just took a a quick picture of my Case skid steer.Paint job is 3 years old. I used oil based implement enamel from Rural King farm store.If the weather is above 90 f you can spray it unthined from one of those 15 dollar upside down spray guns from HF. It levels out nicely and has almost no over spray. These spray guns are low pressure hi volume .They do a perfect for me job at an almost trhow away price.Good luck Edwin Dirnbeck

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

... Not sure if I will go back and do that tonight, or not. Oh, who am I kidding? I won't sleep until I do...

So I did. I mixed in some of the Penetrol to the Blue Quart. I had to pour out some of the Blue to fit it in, but no big deal. I figured it would be fine to pour right into the aquifer. Just checking to see who's actually reading. Anyway, WOW! What a difference! Thank you CountryBoy19! I will absolutely remember this tip! And hope that I never need it again...

So, as Bill predicted, it is going to take more than one coat and I am absolutely fine with that. Everything else has taken multiple coats to cover to my satisfaction so that is perfectly acceptable.

The long bar has one coat. The texture that is visible is not the paint. It is the cast iron texture showing through because the coat is thin. I like it so much better already and am looking forward to tomorrow so I can apply it. The ring has the light coat over a wet sanded previous coat of the old mixture ( pre-Penetrol )

Thanks again, CountryBoy19!

 

[Zahnrad Kopf]

It isn't 'paint' you hate.

Yes... Yes it is. That, and the process.

...it is doing the same thing wrong with the wrong paint for the task over and over and expecting a different outcome.

<snip>

But it ain't assured with ignorant general-purpose porch and deck paint, no matter how much ju ju you aim at it.

I am really not following that. I wrote before that all the other paints are also a generic enamel and they have been working just fine. My question was why this one was not. Again - The others are not the purpose specific ones you list, yet seem to be working just fine. Will they last 25 years. No. Likely not. That's really not my concern. If they're still here in 25 years we can reevaluate then and adjust fire if necessary. This is a working recondition. Not a restoration. Maybe I am missing the point. Won't be the first time. Won't be the last.

 

[Monarchist]

Yes... Yes it is. That, and the process.





I am really not following that. I wrote before that all the other paints are also a generic enamel and they have been working just fine. My question was why this one was not. Again - The others are not the purpose specific ones you list, yet seem to be working just fine. Will they last 25 years. No. Likely not. That's really not my concern. If they're still here in 25 years we can reevaluate then and adjust fire if necessary. This is a working recondition. Not a restoration. Maybe I am missing the point. Won't be the first time. Won't be the last.

Point is that I am lazier than you are. A GREAT DEAL lazier. "Generic?" Read "Porch paint".

I can't be bothered to mess with re-formulating paint when I can buy a paint for another few bucks a gallon that goes on right first time, every time, for a given task.

Example: Early-on I said Valspar for walls and Behr for ceilings. Behr is actually the lesser-rated paint. But their 'ceiling white' does a better and easier job for me than the Valspar.

Steel fire doors here don't get Benjamin-Moore. They get Rustoleum white hammertone. Goes on easier, tolerates lower-grade pre-prep, and lasts longer for THAT job. The fencing got 'Olympic Stain'.

Lazy about d*****g around with paint because research to ID a 'lazy man's paint' that needs low/no messing about with for any given task is cheap and well worth the avoided hassle.

I ain't MARRIED to any of 'em.

Your S-W 'loyalty' has cost you a good deal of time and annoyance, has it not?

Not a paint problem. Yer just too hard-headed to give up, put that S-W aside for some other job, and buy something more appropriate right outta the can.

That ends up... cheaper.

Just quote me a shop-rate for buying-back yesterday, once it has been wasted.




Bill

 

[CountryBoy19]

Thanks again, CountryBoy19!

I'm glad it worked out! But really the thanks is due to the unnamed member (unnamed because I forget who) that pointed this out to me a few months ago.

Your S-W 'loyalty' has cost you a good deal of time and annoyance, has it not?

I think you're a bit quick to jump to conclusions or preconceived notions. I don't know that he said he is loyal to SW, but in my case, it's hard to find some of the paints that you speak of. Before I started my lathe restoration I stopped by a SW store to see what they had and inquire about their higher end paints. The sales person didn't know anything about it if it didn't go on a wall, ceiling, or house. He said he would have his district sales rep, whom was supposedly a "very knowledgable man" call me the next day. Do you think that call ever came? Nope. Outside of the local SW store my options for high quality paint are the internet (hazmat shipping kills that) or a auto-body paint place 2 hrs away.

That settled it for me, Rustoleum Professional Alkyd enamel with iso-cyanate hardener and penetrol for better flow & leveling.

 

[gadget73]

My local S-W is similar. Latex or nuttin. I know they do have oil enamel but they want like 25 bucks a quart for it. I can get XO Rust or Rustoleum for half that down the road at the hardware store. No idea if it works better, but I doubt its twice as good.

If I need a smaller amount of enamel in a custom color, the local hardware store will custom mix XO-Rust for me. Works just as well as Rustoleum, maybe a bit better at times, and I can get quarts in custom colors vs having to buy a gallon of the Rustoleum Pro to get more selection.

 

[Monarchist]

in my case, it's hard to find some of the paints that you speak of.

I expected to have to order online. Then found that Benjamin-Moore had a brick and mortar store less than two miles away. The P22 topcoat was a stock item, tinted to chart OR the "Rock Moss Green' formula, and priced about the same as the least-cost online price, shipping inclusive.

As take-way, I didn't have to fret shipping damage nor returns if colour was wrong. Primer was on sale, hence cheaper than online.

Yah - that is Loudoun County, VA, not a lower-population-density rural area.

But I get my Glyptal, specialty automotive coatings, and various lubes, Diesel fuel treatments, and such online with no pain.

Bill

 

[cg285]

btw s-w has two different stores. the house paint store and the automotive store

 

[gwilson]

Zahrad,I recommended that you use paint thinner. That,or the Penetrol make the paint flow out smoother. As mentioned,I was able to varnish violins so smooth they looked sprayed. There was all this LORE about using lavender oil,and other very expensive stuff,but ordinary paint thinner worked just as well.

Don't think that the cheap Chinese spray guns are bad. I had my Binks guns stolen and have been using a $35.00 Chinese copy of a Devilbis(sp?) for many years. It atomizes particles just as well as any expensive gun,enabling me to spray perfectly nice sunburst finishes as seen in the pictures below.

Christ!! This new system is twisting my pictures around. Pictures that I have formerly used and were fine!! WTF is up?