powder mixed with water to harden into filler for iron porosity

[rustyironism]

The iron foundry I use called to say some of my latest order has some slight porosity in one area of a part.
It's only cosmetic, and at 280 pounds, I don't want him to melt it back down and try again, an unnecessary waste of time, money, sand and resin and electricity.
I usually use JB Weld to fill small imperfections.

He uses a gray powder that is mixed with water and hardens into a hard, grindable filler.

It doesn't spark, so I ASSume it is an epoxy of some sort.

The trouble is that he is nearly out and can't find a source.
No label on the old container.

I'll guess that if you eat a pound of it, it will eventually cause cancer, so probably no longer available.

I've researched and made many calls.
Evidently, JB Weld's patents ran out and other companies make a similar product, but I am finding none that are a powder that mixes with WATER to kick off.
My pattern supply guy sells Faststeel, two part epoxy putty, and suggested Lab Metal.
I've found Belzona 1111, but have not tried it.

My research seems to lead to acrylics can be water based, while epoxies prefer an oil base.

Anybody here have any insight into a water mixed powder to harden as a filler?

Not saying it is better or cheaper, just a puzzle to try to find a product that has been successful for many years.

Thanks for any help!

Mike

 

[atex57]

Water Plug, AKA hydraulic cement. Mixes with water, gray, hard, buy it at any hardware store.

Ed.

 

[boslab]

There was a filler in use in the local foundry, it was spirit based though, the filller was mixed with methylated spirits, I can’t remember what the stuff was called, whiting is in my mind but with uncertainty.
I last used RPF 800 ( rapid primer filler) a spray filler primer, thinned with el cheapo gun wash thinners in a gravity gun, worked like a charm.
I think fibreglass moulders use the same
Mark

 

[rustyironism]

boslab,
Ilike the idea of a simple spirit mix, not a special blend.
I will look into that.

But, I'll bet atex57 has it!
I have used hydraulic cement in a well house repair many years ago, and my research kept pushing me towards a cement based acrylic, but my mind was closed, thinking epoxy.
I am not finding any articles saying hydraulic cement sticks to iron, but, I'll bet that was a solution years ago and worked.
I'll buy a can and try it.

Thank you!
I'll bet this is solved.

Mike

 

[tdmidget]

boslab,
Ilike the idea of a simple spirit mix, not a special blend.
I will look into that.

But, I'll bet atex57 has it!
I have used hydraulic cement in a well house repair many years ago, and my research kept pushing me towards a cement based acrylic, but my mind was closed, thinking epoxy.
I am not finding any articles saying hydraulic cement sticks to iron, but, I'll bet that was a solution years ago and worked.
I'll buy a can and try it.

Thank you!
I'll bet this is solved.

Mike

Durham's Rock Hard Water Putty – Trusted for over 80 years

durhamswaterputty.com

Very little work time, sets up fast

 

[L Vanice]

In 1962 my dentist gave me his investment casting equipment. The mold material was a large tin can of Ransom & Randolph Gray Investment. It was a gray powder that you mixed with water and poured into the flask around the wax model. It is very fine grained to flow into small recesses and fill cracks and details. It set quite hard and was similar to plaster of Paris. After it set, you heated the flask to melt the wax and drive out the moisture and then poured the metal while the flask was still red hot. R&R is still in business making many products that are water-mixed powders and set to strong and hard solids. Most of these materials are used by dentists and dental labs plus jewelry makers and industrial investment casting foundries.

Ransom & Randolph | Dental

Dental products for modeling and investing applications, including stones & plasters, duplicating materials, waxes, investments, equipment, and impression trays.

www.ransom-randolph.com

I used some hydraulic cement many years ago and recall that it contained sand and would not be suited to filling tiny pores.

Larry

 

[surplusjohn]

Lab metal is basically lacquer and powdered metal. Not water mix but Handy stuff. I am surprised they still sell it.lol

 

[boslab]

Like the hydraulic cement, they used that to build lighthouses I think, they seemed to stand a bit of punishment!
I never considered the flask compound they use in denturemaking but it dissolves in hot water I think, I wasn’t paying attention on that bit of the tour ( quick guided tour of the dental college in Cardiff) looked a fascinating job.
Mark

 

[GregSY]

The first question is why do you care about porosity? You say it's cosmetic but does it affect the fit and function? If so, does the new goo-goo need to adhere to any physical requirements?

If not...use bondo or JB Weld or ....whatever.

 

[Georgineer]

I vaguely remembered a traditional recipe using sal ammoniac and iron filings. A quick internet search came up with this page of recipes:

Cements And Filling For Cast Iron

Filling For Cast Iron One-quarter tumbler full of japan dryer, 1% ounce finely ground dry white lead. Mix and add 1 quart of finishing japan. Stir in dry rotten stone until mixture is a thick paste. ...

chestofbooks.com

George

 

[John Garner]

Water Plug, AKA hydraulic cement. Mixes with water, gray, hard, buy it at any hardware store.

Ed.

Hydraulic cement hardens VERY quickly. For longer working time --15 to 20 minutes -- "anchoring cement" would do.

Both are slightly expansive, and in my experience with them have been fairly fine powders. "Precision grout" usually has a coarser texture.

Other stuff worth considering are "gypsum cements" and "tooling plasters". Both are slightly expansive, and will turn grey with the addition of carbon black that is sold for coloring concrete.

 

[tdmidget]

The Water putty and other brands are expansive and little working time. For your application I would rub the powder into the porous area and spray with water ( a spray bottle wwould be perfect. It will set up FAST.

 

[DMF_TomB]

many foundries use Bondo or Auto Body filler, it sticks fairly well and can be milled or ground relatively
easily, epoxy filler can be on brittle side where Bondo tends to flex rather than break up
..... grout cement or any mineral filled base using sand would be hard on milling drilling cutters

 

[rustyironism]

good points, on the grout being hard on cutters.

for simple painting fill, bondo would be ok, but I figure JB Weld is a little tougher, where it might be needed.​

The reviews online about metal filled bondo is kinda like
"Watermelon is the best thing for diabetes"
"Watermelon is the worst thing for diabetes"

Mike

 

[Matt_Maguire]

Prolly sodium silicate AKA "waterglass". Outfit in Champaign Il dumps castings in a tank of it & pulls a vacuum. The stuff Withstands temps near iron melting point when cured.

Years back it was one of the ingredients used in "stop leak" products for engines (put in radiator) to cure water in oil problems.

Good luck, Matt

 

[CatMan]

What you want is called Belzona.

www.belzona.com

 

[GregSY]

One look at that Belzona website and all I can gather is they will have the majority of your bank account reassigned to them before you even begin to actually repair anything.

 

[rustyironism]

As incredible as this internet is, no matter how much I research, there is always something new!
Vacuuming a pot of sodium silicate is something I'll have to research.

I mix sodium silicate with silica sand to make cores for my little
bronze foundry and it definitely gets hard and withstands high temperature, but, I have not yet found a way to dissolve it without chipping it away.

I did see the Belzona website, but did not call the nearest distributor, 266 miles away, to see what the cost is.

Mike

 

[machinistrrt]

If you like the idea of epoxy, try Marine-tex. Good stuff.

 

[JohnEvans]

Back in the day it was called "Iron Cement" . Used a lot to smooth castings on machine tools etc. Think like using a skim coat of Bondo in body work. If you have a old "Dykes "auto repair manual you will find it mentioned for head and block repair.