Programming for so many years on my own and wondering how the real world does it.

[wheelieking71]

I wonder how many have taken advantage of training by the manufacturer (or qualified distributor) for their programming systems? I am amazed at the number of CNC - CAD CAM users who have never had any formal training ( and by formal I don't mean a 1/2 day expiation from the installation tech) on their CNC control / machine / software. I'm a big believer in the 3 - 5 day class type training. Youtube is another resource. On line tutorials also. We have had guys come in from other shops who have used Master cam (in our case) for years, but never had any formal training and are floored when shown some features they never knew existed.

I have been through 2 multiple week classes for FeatureCAM at Gateway here in Phoenix. Phil Buggs was the instructor. First basic, then advanced 2.5D. Also several on-line 8hr sessions straight from DELCAM. Advanced techniques, and two different 3-D sessions.

I wont say the training didn't help. It did. But, I learned far more, and retained the knowledge a whole lot better, by learning through doing!

Just a few hours ago actually, I have always struggled with operation ordering on the 4th-axis.
Not any more! It took me a while to find the damn check-box, but, I nailed that sucker down!
And, I wont forget any time soon where its at either.
If an instructor showed me that, the intell would be gone before he got through the lesson after.

 

[Diezel]

I agree with wheelie, featureCAM is hands down my favorite. I would love to have inventorHSM on hand for the 3D stuff though! Like wheelie said there is no competition to the ease of use when it comes to drawing in featurecam, also pulling geometry straight from a model helps take the time out of programming. The real thing about fc though is it's completely customizable. If you can think of a macro you can make it in featurecam. It all depends on how much you know and how in depth you want to go.

 

[wheelieking71]

I agree with wheelie, featureCAM is hands down my favorite.

I wouldn't say it's my favorite.
It's the one I know the best. And, it is fast.

There are a ton of things I absolutely hate about FeatureCAM:
The tool-crib, and some of the things it does beyond your control, piss me off to no end. I only need/want ONE GOTDAMN CRIB!!!!!!!!
Yet, FeatureCAM creates a new crib for every part file! It is the single stupidest thing I have ever seen!
MasterCAM is lightyears ahead of FeatureCAM with their tool-crib.
It can be very "buggy". And I mean very buggy.
I use my layers a lot. I also have features (almost always 3-D surfacing features) jumping around layers all the time.
Here is another BIG one:
If you have everything in your part-view minimized, so you can see everything without wearing out your scroll button on one part file,
And you modify or add a set-up, EVERYTHING flys back open. This pisses me off to no end. And, support tells me there is no way to stop it. STUPID!!!!!!

Support: I absolutely hate the portal.
Support has sucked hind tit since Chris Cole got "promoted" years ago.
Yet, you can bet your sorry ass we pay for that shitty support. Post support excluded, its still awesome! (if you can understand the guy "mumble-mumble" what?)

I seriously doubt, if I was fluent in every CAM out there, that I would stick with FeatureCAM.
Favorite? No. Am I really good with it, and go from print/solid to part, using it very-very quickly? Yes.

 

[Diezel]

I wouldn't say it's my favorite.
It's the one I know the best. And, it is fast.

There are a ton of things I absolutely hate about FeatureCAM:
The tool-crib, and some of the things it does beyond your control, piss me off to no end. I only need/want ONE GOTDAMN CRIB!!!!!!!!
Yet, FeatureCAM creates a new crib for every part file! It is the single stupidest thing I have ever seen!
MasterCAM is lightyears ahead of FeatureCAM with their tool-crib.
It can be very "buggy". And I mean very buggy.
I use my layers a lot. I also have features (almost always 3-D surfacing features) jumping around layers all the time.
Here is another BIG one:
If you have everything in your part-view minimized, so you can see everything without wearing out your scroll button on one part file,
And you modify or add a set-up, EVERYTHING flys back open. This pisses me off to no end. And, support tells me there is no way to stop it. STUPID!!!!!!

Support: I absolutely hate the portal.
Support has sucked hind tit since Chris Cole got "promoted" years ago.
Yet, you can bet your sorry ass we pay for that shitty support. Post support excluded, its still awesome! (if you can understand the guy "mumble-mumble" what?)

I seriously doubt, if I was fluent in every CAM out there, that I would stick with FeatureCAM.
Favorite? No. Am I really good with it, and go from print/solid to part, using it very-very quickly? Yes.

New crib for each part file?! Do you not have a master file that you use....? I have basic files "mill master" "lathe master" "turn mill master". I have 1 tool crib for each place I've been and or contracted for and I never have an issue... I also have the master files set with attributes, tool cribs and posts for each machine... Never had an issue like that. I don't do much surfacing on fc, I have made myself some stuff with it but I have inventor hsm through the year with a previous employer so I use that for now for 3D. Because I like the adaptive roughing tool paths. Also, lol I have no idea why that part view thing drives you so crazy, i know it happens but doesn't bother me any.

 

[wheelieking71]

New crib for each part file?! Do you not have a master file that you use....? I have basic files "mill master" "lathe master" "turn mill master". I have 1 tool crib for each place I've been and or contracted for and I never have an issue... I also have the master files set with attributes, tool cribs and posts for each machine... Never had an issue like that. I don't do much surfacing on fc, I have made myself some stuff with it but I have inventor hsm through the year with a previous employer so I use that for now for 3D. Because I like the adaptive roughing tool paths. Also, lol I have no idea why that part view thing drives you so crazy, i know it happens but doesn't bother me any.

You don't use many custom tools do you? You know, tools that you have to define the tool profile with a curve?

 

[Diezel]

You don't use many custom tools do you? You know, tools that you have to define the tool profile with a curve?

No I don't use many form tools, or very often. Only once in a while, guess i just never noticed that maybe?

 

[Edster]

I like the way FeatureCAM handles toolcribs. I have a separate crib for each machine. I save each tools T number so they are always the same in each crib/machine. That way all the programs for that machine agree and I don't have to needlessly swap tools around in the machine. If I need a #6 drill and it's already in the machine then it's in the correct spot and it's the correct tool number.

I don't like how the software will create a new crib for every new .mf file or when you reload .fm files in a .mf file. I wish there was a way to specify in the machines post to only use a specific toolcrib.

 

[wheelieking71]

I like the way FeatureCAM handles toolcribs. I have a separate crib for each machine. I save each tools T number so they are always the same in each crib/machine. That way all the programs for that machine agree and I don't have to needlessly swap tools around in the machine. If I need a #6 drill and it's already in the machine then it's in the correct spot and it's the correct tool number.

I don't like how the software will create a new crib for every new .mf file or when you reload .fm files in a .mf file. I wish there was a way to specify in the machines post to only use a specific toolcrib.

I agree with both the beginning, and the end of your reply, LOL

In red ^^^^^ is one of my biggest gripes. I have tool-cribs named after part-files I haven't opened in years. I used to try to delete them, but, they just keep coming back. I gave up!
Where I really get frustrated is: not all tool-groups are available in all feature types. So, if you build a custom tool, FC puts it away for you in the tool-group it "thinks" it belongs in. Now, keep in mind, creating a custom tool in FC is not exactly simple. The tool will usually get put in either "side-mill" or "form-tools". The problem, want to do a simple side feature so you can quickly control FC's ohh so intuitive tool-path? Guess what?! You can not access "side-mill" from a side feature! So, that tool you just spent 30 minutes creating a few part-files ago? Yea, you can't get there from here.

Soo, you open the tool manager, to see if you can figure something out. And quickly find this is a huge waste of your time. Reason? Well, in the tool manager you have the "from crib" and the "current crib". Then, you have about 30 crib options under each. All named after old part files FC has so courteously saved FOR YOU! (eff you FC, I freaking hate this!!!!!!). So, you go find that tool you want to use in the "from-crib" of your choice (you have to search out the crib FC created for that part file). And try to move the tool in to your current crib (which is your regular crib that you use each time you create a new part-file. UNTIL! you save that part file, at which time FC creates ANOTHER eff'ing tool-crib!) The problem? Well, if that tool is in "side-mill", you can only move it to "side-mill" which you still can not access from that side feature your are trying to use said tool in! So, you essentially either have to go through the motions of creating that tool again! (my face is beat red with anger by now) Or copy the feature you used that tool in from your old part file, paste it in to the file you are trying to use the tool in, and modify parameters as needed. That is a work-around, and does work. BUT! It should not be necessary.

This clusterfuck (pardon my french, but that is exactly what it is) makes a task that should be 3 mouse clicks (15 seconds MAX), take 5 to 30 minutes!!!!! (depends if you can remember where you last used that tool to go copy the feature).

I should be able to turn this whole new crib creation for each new part file B.S. off if I want. But, you can not do it.
And, I should be able to access any tool from any feature in any file at any time! Hell-no! That makes too much sense, and is not intuitive enough
I have gone many rounds with support on this. They don't care.
I am not alone. There are several threads about this on FeatureCAM Forums. Lots of guys dog-pile in to these threads complaining of the same issues.
FC does nothing about it.

 

[Diezel]

I agree with both the beginning, and the end of your reply, LOL

In red ^^^^^ is one of my biggest gripes. I have tool-cribs named after part-files I haven't opened in years. I used to try to delete them, but, they just keep coming back. I gave up!
Where I really get frustrated is: not all tool-groups are available in all feature types. So, if you build a custom tool, FC puts it away for you in the tool-group it "thinks" it belongs in. Now, keep in mind, creating a custom tool in FC is not exactly simple. The tool will usually get put in either "side-mill" or "form-tools". The problem, want to do a simple side feature so you can quickly control FC's ohh so intuitive tool-path? Guess what?! You can not access "side-mill" from a side feature! So, that tool you just spent 30 minutes creating a few part-files ago? Yea, you can't get there from here.

Soo, you open the tool manager, to see if you can figure something out. And quickly find this is a huge waste of your time. Reason? Well, in the tool manager you have the "from crib" and the "current crib". Then, you have about 30 crib options under each. All named after old part files FC has so courteously saved FOR YOU! (eff you FC, I freaking hate this!!!!!!). So, you go find that tool you want to use in the "from-crib" of your choice (you have to search out the crib FC created for that part file). And try to move the tool in to your current crib (which is your regular crib that you use each time you create a new part-file. UNTIL! you save that part file, at which time FC creates ANOTHER eff'ing tool-crib!) The problem? Well, if that tool is in "side-mill", you can only move it to "side-mill" which you still can not access from that side feature your are trying to use said tool in! So, you essentially either have to go through the motions of creating that tool again! (my face is beat red with anger by now) Or copy the feature you used that tool in from your old part file, paste it in to the file you are trying to use the tool in, and modify parameters as needed. That is a work-around, and does work. BUT! It should not be necessary.

This clusterfuck (pardon my french, but that is exactly what it is) makes a task that should be 3 mouse clicks (15 seconds MAX), take 5 to 30 minutes!!!!! (depends if you can remember where you last used that tool to go copy the feature).

I should be able to turn this whole new crib creation for each new part file B.S. off if I want. But, you can not do it.
And, I should be able to access any tool from any feature in any file at any time! Hell-no! That makes too much sense, and is not intuitive enough
I have gone many rounds with support on this. They don't care.
I am not alone. There are several threads about this on FeatureCAM Forums. Lots of guys dog-pile in to these threads complaining of the same issues.
FC does nothing about it.

As a quick work around couldn't you just have a "form tool" folder in your part library and save the feature from each form tool you use? Just have to remember to add each new one in and name that feature appropriately according to the tool? Not right but could save you from losing 30 mins and raising your bp lol

 

[wheelieking71]

As a quick work around couldn't you just have a "form tool" folder in your part library and save the feature from each form tool you use? Just have to remember to add each new one in and name that feature appropriately according to the tool? Not right but could save you from losing 30 mins and raising your bp lol

I quit wasting 30 minutes a long time ago.......
But, until then (when I figured out the work-arounds), it was a very real struggle. And support offered no help. No suggestions of a work-around, nothing.
That is why I remain soo pissed about it.
They always want you to report problems so they can address the issues. I hear it all the time:
"if you run in to any bugs, please let us know". "If you have any suggestions to improve your FeatureCAM experience, please share them".
At least I used to hear it, when I used support.
I gave up on support when it got to the point I knew more than the guy that answered the phone. (not because I was that good either!)

I have, as well as many others, shared all this tool-crib B.S. for many years now. What have they done? Absolutely nothing.

I would like somebody from Delcam to give me one good reason why they limit tool availability in various features?
Specifically "side-mill". And, when when you create a custom tool, which is actually a form-tool, does FC put it away in side-mill. Where you can't access it later. And more importantly, why has it been this way for at least 7 years? FC's claim to fame is that it is fast. You would think anything that would simplify a task from a clusterfuck, down to 3 mouse clicks would be pretty high on their priority list to address. NO?
Unless, they feel it is a non issue. At which point they get an F- for being tuned in to their customers. Because it is a huge issue.

Same with everything in "part-view" flying back open if you add new, or mod anything.
I bet I have wasted a few hundred hours minimizing everything over there over the last 9 years. 200 hours x $75/hr = $15k
I have some files that have upwards of 10 set-ups, some with 15-30 features in each set-up. That makes for a long part-view.
Of course I am going to minimize everything so I can see what the hell I am doing, and my finger doesn't fall off, or my scroll wheel catch on fire.
Plus, its just faster when its all minimized. Remember that bit about FC's claim to fame being speed?

I am obviously very bi-polar on the subject of FC.

 

[Edster]

I don't have a problem deleting extra toolcribs using the tool manager. I try not to save a file before I select the active crib that I want though. That way I have less cribs to delete. You won't be able to delete a crib if it's for a file thats open.

 

[Perry Harrington]

FWIW, I was using BobCAD 20.5 (same as 21 for all intents) and I recently made a model in Fusion 360 that is very similar to one I did 5 years ago. It took me less than 20 hours to do the complete model, whereas with BobCAD I think it took 2 or 3 wees because I drew every view in 2D from a blueprint, then did the CAM on every view separately. I think it was about 5 weeks to get the CAM all worked out on this one part. If Fusion 360 can mad the CAD that much faster, I think it'll probably make the CAM a lot faster too. At the end of the day it allows you to try out new part features (designs) without worrying about throwing away huge amounts of time.

 

[wheelieking71]

I don't have a problem deleting extra toolcribs using the tool manager. I try not to save a file before I select the active crib that I want though. That way I have less cribs to delete. You won't be able to delete a crib if it's for a file thats open.

Maybe I need to update? Its been quite some time. Seems every time I do, I have to spend time with support.........
Is it possible they actually fixed something? Regardless, it sounds like it still creates a new crib named after whatever your file name is when you save.
And, that is the root of the problem. No need for a new crib. Just update the crib your are using when you save.
The version I am running, I can delete any crib I want. But, that doesn't mean it wont be back tomorrow.

 

[wheelieking71]

FWIW, I was using BobCAD 20.5 (same as 21 for all intents) and I recently made a model in Fusion 360 that is very similar to one I did 5 years ago. It took me less than 20 hours to do the complete model, whereas with BobCAD I think it took 2 or 3 wees because I drew every view in 2D from a blueprint, then did the CAM on every view separately. I think it was about 5 weeks to get the CAM all worked out on this one part. If Fusion 360 can mad the CAD that much faster, I think it'll probably make the CAM a lot faster too. At the end of the day it allows you to try out new part features (designs) without worrying about throwing away huge amounts of time.

Fusion definitely has my attention lately!