Realign sub spindle on Tsugami Swiss machine

[Mr.Chipeater]

Discovered today that one of the guys whacked the sub hard enough on one of our Tsugami BS20 swiss machines to bump it 0.002" off in Y (perpendicular to the floor).

Has anyone here tried realigning the sub on a Swiss before? any pointers?

I haven't started digging into it yet but I assume, the entire subspindle would need to be removed and new pads, ground to the correct thickness installed to get it back into alignment. At least that's my experience fixing subs in turning centers.

 

[guythatbrews]

I'd check level on the machine. Maybe it's off. Is the y error consitent down the length of a trued bar in the main spindle?

Hard to see how a whack could move y.

 

[Ox]

A .002" "tip" seems like an awfully small amount, if it ever moved at all.
Meaning - that if it was smacked enough to move at all, I would expect it to move more than that at a min.
???

Any chance that you just edit the Y axis offset? (does it move in Y?)


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Mr.Chipeater]

A .002" "tip" seems like an awfully small amount, if it ever moved at all.
Meaning - that if it was smacked enough to move at all, I would expect it to move more than that at a min.
???

Any chance that you just edit the Y axis offset? (does it move in Y?)


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

The sub moves in X and Z, no Y movement that is set by the physical height of the sub spindle assembly on top the rails.

It could be tipped, didn't get that far, but either way its bending small diameter parts on us when transferring which is causing runout issues. Assuming the level isn't off, I'd figure fixing tip will be the same procedure other than we may get away with not having to grind new pads.

 

[Ox]

Well, a crash didn't edit the shim thicknesses...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[MCritchley]

As Rich would say, play detective.

If you can I would turn a bar in each spindle the same size and start indicating.
You will have a very clear picture of the misalignment. Leave the bars in the spindle so you you have a level of repeatability.
Is the sub just bolted or is it also keyed?

 

[50BMG DUDE]

I used to have a BS20 but I cannot remember - Can you get to the bolts on the rail trucks? I'd check to make sure they haven't worked loose, make sure the sub spindle preload nut on the bearings is also tight,

 

[Vancbiker]

So much depends on the crash. For just a couple thou, I’d take it all apart and stone all the mating surfaces. I have found many times that a crash raises metal around threads and deforms under bolt heads. Getting those surfaces flat often takes care of small errors.

The worst I’ve seen required installing 16mm keenserts to fix the pulled up/out threads and a grinding wheel in my angle grinder to rough down the mating surfaces before stoning and scraping the fit.

 

[Mr.Chipeater]

Well, a crash didn't edit the shim thicknesses...


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

It does if it displaces material.

I don't know for sure if Tsugami's have shims hence me asking if anyone here has experience with them but my experience is with realigning box way turning centers and rapid crashes into the sub almost always required grinding new shims to get it back to factory spec.

0.002" is also a mile for us on the swiss. Most our parts require .001 TIR or better and we're seeing .003"+ now when clamping with the sub so we definitely need to find a way to get it back in line.

 

[Ox]

Spindle centerline alignment should not show up as a TIR issue.
Maybe you bent the spindle?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[SWYooper]

This is one of the huge reasons I hate machines with no Y axis on the sub spindle. The other is interpolation issues.

In the past I've taken a chunk of ground/polished stock, say .500", stick it out of the guide bushing and then bring the sub up and over it. A bit of sharpie or dye chem on the end will tell you exactly where it's off. I'd also indicate as long of a travel as I could on the sub, on the top and the side. It might not be only the Y axis that is off. After that, start pulling sheet metal and see what you can see. Our Citizen L20 Type 9s (no Y on the sub) have some adjustment bolts buried under the sheet metal. Our Hanwha does not have those and requires significantly more disassembly to get access to rails/bolts (saw that and called the service tech).

 

[Mr.Chipeater]

This is one of the huge reasons I hate machines with no Y axis on the sub spindle. The other is interpolation issues.

In the past I've taken a chunk of ground/polished stock, say .500", stick it out of the guide bushing and then bring the sub up and over it. A bit of sharpie or dye chem on the end will tell you exactly where it's off. I'd also indicate as long of a travel as I could on the sub, on the top and the side. It might not be only the Y axis that is off. After that, start pulling sheet metal and see what you can see. Our Citizen L20 Type 9s (no Y on the sub) have some adjustment bolts buried under the sheet metal. Our Hanwha does not have those and requires significantly more disassembly to get access to rails/bolts (saw that and called the service tech).

Thanks for the tip.

I checked the level today and its good. Also spoke with a Tsugami tech and they confirmed the only way to adjust it is by shimming it.