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rechambering New England shotgun to.223?

moaprecision

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Location
grants pass, Oregon USA
Hey guys- here is a techie question for ya-
My daughter is old enough to participate in the mentored hunter program this year, and I would like to start her with a single shot. I have been looking for a NEF handi-rifle or an H-R Ultra in .223, but the only ones I can find aroud here are the varmint barrel versions. She is only 9, and they are WAY too heavy for her to shoot off-hand. I am an accomplished gunsmith, so I was considering re-chambering one of the dime-a-dozen New England shotguns by cutting it off ahead of the pivot-pin, and silver soldering in a .223 barrel blank in a lighter contour, kinda like a mono-block double.Can anyone tell me if there is any difference between the rifle and shotgun versions of these receivers? There are several at the pawn shop right now in the 75 to 90 dollar range in good shape, but I don't want to cut one up and then find out the receiver is not strong enough. I know it is still lower pressure, but they are chambered in 12 ga 3 inch currently.
I was planning on finishing up the project by cutting the barrel at 16 and 1/2 inches and shortening the stock to suit, and installing a 1x aimpoint type dot sight. If my daughter can shoot it half so well as her .22, the deer don't stand a chance.
Thanks!
Tom
 
H&R says they will fit shotgun barrels to the rifles but not vice versa, see this link. So I would have to assume there is a difference in the strength of the action.

It is to bad as I have the same complaint about the heavy weight barrels. To me the whole point of a single shot in 223, is to have a short, light easy to handle rifle, not a heavy piece. They really should offer these in a lighter configuration. I would really like to see them in a 260 rem at about 4 1/2 lbs. With scope a little more then 5 lbs, would make a great mountain rifle with about the same recoil as a 8 lb 30-06.
 
SB1 and SB2 are not the same.

http://www.hr1871.com/Firearms/Rifles/handiRifle.asp

Model: Superlight
Ammo: 223 Rem. (SB2-SL3)
Stock: High-density polymer, black matte finish, sling swivel studs, recoil pad, Monte Carlo stock.
Barrel: 20"
Sights: Scope mount rail and hammer extension; no iron sights.
Length: 35-1/4"
Length of Pull: 14-1/4"
Weight: 5-1/2 lbs.

Close enough?

From what I understand, the sb1 and sb2 actions are not the same. A close look and you will see that the SB2 is a larger action.
 
You being a gunsmith..........

It will take a bit of time for the conversion.
Buy the .223, chop, turn, crown. Much less time. What is your time worth?

Gunsmithing not required now that I think about it.:-)
 
It will take a bit of time for the conversion.
Buy the .223, chop, turn, crown. Much less time. What is your time worth?

Gunsmithing not required now that I think about it.:-)

Actually, I wasn't planning the project for money savings, you are right about what my time is worth. Mostly planning to use up a nice takeoff barrel and have a handbuilt rifle for my kids (and theirs) to learn on. Also, can't find such a rifle locally, my distributor is out of stock in the above-mentioned lightweight, and I cannot get it soon enough from any of my other suppliers. Oh, BTW, you forgot to mention extending and retiming the extractor for a rimless case:eek:
 
I must have misunderstood.....

I was just talking about reworking the varmit .223.
My daughter loves the .223. She was 12 when I found a Ruger#3 and I never got it back.

I understand building for your kid. How about a Martini Cadet with a rimmed .223 ? Maybe not in time for this year but a nice action. But for a little girl the breakopen is a little more smooth and graceful.
 
H&R

why not get the varmet and order a lighter barrel.or see if you can get one from factory thru a dealer.
Band:have you considered the recoil on a 260 in a handi rifle.
 
why not get the varmet and order a lighter barrel.or see if you can get one from factory thru a dealer.
Band:have you considered the recoil on a 260 in a handi rifle.

Actually, I am an FFL dealer, so I could order one. The main issue here is time. The hunting season for antlerless deer here starts on Oct 24th. I have solved the issue by trading for a H&R handi rifle in .223 with a standard contour barrel, which I will shorten and flute. The cost to me will be parkerizing a 1911, a trigger job on a Savage 110, and a few primers. I got lucky and one of my regular customers happened to have what I needed for a change! If anyone is interested, I will post a pic when I have the stubby rifle finished.
Thanks to all for the info and suggestions!!

Tom
 
Actually, I am an FFL dealer, so I could order one. The main issue here is time. The hunting season for antlerless deer here starts on Oct 24th. I have solved the issue by trading for a H&R handi rifle in .223 with a standard contour barrel, which I will shorten and flute. The cost to me will be parkerizing a 1911, a trigger job on a Savage 110, and a few primers. I got lucky and one of my regular customers happened to have what I needed for a change! If anyone is interested, I will post a pic when I have the stubby rifle finished.
Thanks to all for the info and suggestions!!

Tom

Tom, I'd like to see a photo. Thanks, randyc
 
So Herre Gunsmith, I'm not as dumb as I look ,eh?
Those are a nice little rifle. A friend clears deer out of his orchards with one. Light, handy and surprisingly accurate.
Since this will be a rifle she will use for years,(adding to the stock), maybe a little longer barrel might be in order.
One benchrester, Virgil King of the "Houston Warehouse" and Precision Shooting, loves 21 1/2 inches. This may start folks flaming me on the best barrel length, but the man shoots in the low 0's. It may not be the best length but it is a good length.
It might balance better later.
Just my $.02.
 
Maybe you should consider a TC Contender for her. Get the pistol version, a suitable barrel and carbine stock. Notoriously accurate, easily modified and a very cool design. Lots of barrel options, both new and used. That way, she could have everything from .17HM2 up to whatever you can think of.

It's cool that you have a kid that wants to hunt with you.
 
I have shot deer with eight different calibers. I only shot one deer with a .223 and from that one time I would not shoot another one with it. I shot large doe with a single shot New England Arms single shot in .223 The deer was shot through the lungs and rand up and stood fifty feet from me for an half hour. I kept expecting her to fall over, and did not want to cause her to run off by braking the rifle open and reloading. After a half hour it was starting to get dark so I opened the gun, reloaded and shot the deer between the eyes.

My point being, that, if I had shot that deer in the same place with any of my other deer rifles, its life would have been humanly ended in seconds. Gary P. Hansen
 
Bullet selection means everything with smaller calibers,shot placement excluded.
My buddy with the orchard never had a problem. Neck shots.
We were in the desert ahooting jacks and I hit one twice with a 30-30. Bad shot and it kept going. No longer the picture of health to be sure, but moving away. A longer barrel on the T/C screwed me up.

Neck and head are order of the day.
 
Update on H&R .223

Without meanin to start a feud, my thoughts on the .223 are as follows- My father killed every deer he ever shot with a Ruger Mini-14. I only saw him shoot a second time on one occasion, that being an underestimated 325 measured (after the fact) paces away. He corrected and dropped the deer on the second shot.
One significant factor is the size of our local deer. Blacktails in southern Oregon average about 100-130 pounds live weight. My largest ever was a 3x4 feeding in alfalfa that hung at 119 lbs (est 195 live weight). If you subtract that one deer, the average of all the rest is about 75 lbs hanging, or around 130 live weight, and most people around here won't wait for a bigger buck like I do. This is not beyond the .223 WITH A GOOD BULLET. Lightly constructed bullets at high velocity generally lack penetration in the .223. A neck shot is not necessary, usually a solid vital hit in the lung/heart area generates impressive tissue damage to all nearby organs. I can say this as someone who has dissected quite a few deer shot with this cartridge. That said, my favorite deer cartidge is a 6mm PPC with a 95gr partition for anything under 300 yards. Any further and I use a .300 WSM.
In this instance, my priorities are as follows- 1. My daughter is only 9, and she is lightly built. I want her to shoot something she can be comfortable with, so as not to develop fear of recoil. 2. The rifle needs to be simply operated and safe (not cocked by opening like a bolt gun), so she can concentrate on fundamentals. 3. I am not so concerned about the small cartridge causing suffering as I will be backing her up with my .44 mag revolver if a second shot is needed. Finally, I will not put her in a situation needing a shot over 50-75 yards, so energy loss will be minimal.
Now, as the rifle goes, I got it yesterday, and today I cut the barrel to 18-1/2 inches, for balance and length. I will flute it to further reduce weight and improve balance as it is still nose-heavy. I removed the synthetic stock to save for later (as she gets taller) and adapted a wood stock from a Winchester 1200 that was in the scrap bin. I shortened it nearly an inch from the front to fit her smaller hand, and cut the rest from the back. With recoil pad it will be about 11-1/4 inches lop.
It may not fit everyone's ideal, but I think it will serve its purpose well.
I will try to post pics as it progresses.(better be fast, the season starts in 10 days.:eek::eek::eek: Tom
 
moaprecision,
I got one of the ultra lights for the wife to carry on horse back.. fine little rifles they are.. As fur deer and .223's.. I've had good luck with the winchester 64gn soft point stuff.. kills about as well as a .243 if the shot is placed right..
Good luck !
Calvin
 
MOA,sounds like a nice little rifle for your girl......better watch out,she's probably gonna want another!Check out(in a cpl years for her)CZ's little bolt .223.Its built on the mini Mauser action.I bought the one with the Euro hogback stock for my youngest's 12th B-Day.Its extremely lite and well balanced....even has decent figure on stock.

Best of luck with ya'lls hunting!Look into some jerky recipes.....its real easy,we make alot.Kinda think making some would be a great fun with you and daughter.BW
 
.223

Bullet selection means everything with smaller calibers,shot placement excluded.
...

In a NEF single shot one could use a heavy bullet and still have a full powder charge. No need to load short to fit in a mag, so I have been thinking about maybe a 70gr. I have not tried it yet, just bought a Rossi in .243 so I don't think I will use the .223 this year.

Not to steal the thread, what bullet would you recommend for a 1-12" (I think) NEF reloaded for a 150# deer?

Thanks,
Paul
 
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1-12 twist is awfully slow for heavy bullets- AR type assault rifles and others use a 1-7 twist for 69 to 73 grain bullets. 1-9 is a compromise twist, which shoots OK with almost everything, but not super accurate at either end of the weight spectrum. I rebuilt a mini-14 heavy barrel varmint gun with a 1-14 twist, which shoots AWESOME with 45 to 50gr, but absolutely will NOT stabilize anything over 55gr. I would try 62-68gr in your rifle, but it may keyhole with anything heavier. Optimum twist rate changes with velocity, so with a hot load the heavier bullets may stabilize, but I would work up loads carefully as the NEF rifles have no primary extraction. Also, length of the bullet has more effect on twist than weight, so many modern low drag, boattail, polymer tipped bullets seem to need a faster twist than standard bullets the same weight for optimum accuracy. Check the twist on your rifle with a cleaning rod and a tight brush, marking the rod when it makes a comlete revolution, or better yet, contact the manufacturer and ask exactly what twist it has. BTW, the original M-16 rifle with the 20in barrel was rifled 1-12, optimised for the 55gr FMJ. A quality slow expanding 55 might be the hot ticket for your rifle.
Good luck! Tom

"Vegetarian" ( vej- e- tair'- ee- un) Old Indian word meaning "bad hunter".
 
Band:have you considered the recoil on a 260 in a handi rifle.

Doing the math on the recoil a 260 in a 5 lb rifle should be about the same as a 30-06 in an 8 lb rifle, with similar SD bullets. Noticeable to be sure but well under most of the magnums in hunting rifles. The idea behind such a setup would be to have a light, short, accurate, easy to pack rifle with nice range for sheep and goat hunting, while also being cheap. Sure it would not be a super long range rifle, but it would pack nice and be reasonable to shoot.

It seems to me that HR is kind of missing out on a market here. Sure there are bolt guns this light but they are big $$ and I have never had a need for a fast second shot.
 








 
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