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Replacing way wipers on Big Lathe.

GEORGIE

Aluminum
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Location
CANADA QUEBEC
Hi everyone,

I undertook changing the wipers on all ways on my lathe. The ones that are on here appear to be rubber and they seem very worn out.

Under the saddle are grooves for a one shot oiler system. They were completely packed with crap(maybe worn out wiper material?)

Cleaned all that up and want to replace wipers.

I started by making my own wiper for the compund rest. I used felt and a thin sheet of teflon(ptfe)

Not to happy with the results but it should work.

Was wondering if theres a better material to use as after close inspection of some of the old wipers, it seems they have a angled profile.

I see some profiles on McMaster for the flat ways that should work however, none for the v ways.

Any insight would be very appreciated!

Below are some pictures of the whole ordeal!



























 
Before you assemble the machine see if there is a local rebuilder who can come over and scape some oil pockets in the worn ways. Even if he can 1/2 moon oil flake would be better then nothing. Those scratches in the ways will snowball if left alone. Make sure you stone off any rough burr's. Be sure to blow out the oil lines and holes in the casting. If it has an BiJur lube pump replace the metering units (brass jets that allow small amounts of oil out under pressure) https://www.bijurdelimon.com/automatic-lubrication/single-line-resistance-slr-systems.html
 
Thanks for the info! I did stone all the way grooves in the sadle and on the bed.

Richard are you talking about scraping the ways on the bed of the lathe or scraping the sadle?

Also, the oiling systems distribution block (under the crossslide) has one port busted open so that definitely needs replacing.







web upload picture

All the grooves where the oil should go were completely blocked including the ports. Now they are free and clear and i imagine the saddle will move with much more ease than before.

If anything i need to watch a few videos and see if i can hand scrape them??

Thanks
 
Buy a crappy 3/8 inch box wrench and cut a groove in the center of the box end so it will slide over the 5/32 pipe. It works like a hydraulic wrench to hold the metering unit while you loosen the smaller fitting. Otherwise the pipe will break. he brass fitting screwed into the manifold is the metering unit. Replace it with a new one. It has numbers stamped into the side and a directional arrow. look for a local distributor for https://www.bijurdelimon.com/ There are phony companies who mark them up, so call a few before you order.

If I were you I would scrape the shorter ways to give them new oil pockets. The machine looks rough, but a complete rebuild would be lots of $$. If the bed ways are scratched too....scrape them too. I suggested calling a local rebuilder as he probably has power scrapers and a 1/2 moon flaker and could do it in a few hours. Both sides. If you have a hand scraper and do it yourself it will take a lot longer. I have a meeting and have to go...talk to you later
 
Buy a crappy 3/8 inch box wrench and cut a groove in the center of the box end so it will slide over the 5/32 pipe. It works like a hydraulic wrench to hold the metering unit while you loosen the smaller fitting. Otherwise the pipe will break. he brass fitting screwed into the manifold is the metering unit. Replace it with a new one. It has numbers stamped into the side and a directional arrow. look for a local distributor for https://www.bijurdelimon.com/ There are phony companies who mark them up, so call a few before you order.

If I were you I would scrape the shorter ways to give them new oil pockets. The machine looks rough, but a complete rebuild would be lots of $$. If the bed ways are scratched too....scrape them too. I suggested calling a local rebuilder as he probably has power scrapers and a 1/2 moon flaker and could do it in a few hours. Both sides. If you have a hand scraper and do it yourself it will take a lot longer. I have a meeting and have to go...talk to you later


Hi Richard,

Taking off the tube fittings is not a problem. Identifying them is. Would you know what they are called?

Heres a picture.

20230121_101959.jpg

Also, what do you mean by scraping the shorter ways? Which ones are the shorter ways? Also, id like to purchase a half moon hand scrapper as you call it and do some by hand. If you could clarify this for me it would be much appreciated.


Im having a hard time findijg a distribution block but i did find this in my parts inventory that could be used.



And here is some pictures of the one shot oiler system. I have yet to do some reasearch about it as im entertaining the idea of maybe using pneumatic hose instead if the aluminum tubing.






Thanks for helping.
 
When I buy lube fittings for a new lube system I buy from these guys.
https://lube-global.com/english/scategory.php?scid=77 or

Bijur Delimon International

www.bijurdelimon.com

Show them those photo's . I am not sure the brand in picture 2. It might be an air actuated type. It maybe a obsolete Willey Vogel. Showa is a Japanese - The one you have is called a "one shot" type. If the tubing is aluminum, better replace it with copper of nylon. As far as a hand scraper. Email me and I can send you a cad cam drawing of one you can make. Put hand-scraper in title. [email protected]
 
Sorry about saying shorter side. That's a term Rebuilders use. The bed is the long side, the saddle is the short side. You leave the middle low on purpose as dirt gravitates into the ends especially the chuck side. Common sense.
 
All of the lubrication fittings on your lathe are of the metric variety I suspect, going by the hand pump installed. So you want to be careful what you use. I have made fittings work M8 threads mate with 5/16-24 UNF threads, not perfect but it works. One way to tell if the threads are metric is the hex on the fittings. It's either 5/16 or 3/8 for 5/16-24 threads or it is M10 for M8 threads. Stuff is available for both. There's lots of new stuff and NOS stuff on eBay for us poor boys to choose from and not have to pay the unaffordable prices that Bijur gets for the stuff now. Luckly for me, I still have a lot of stuff left over from when my dad used to do machinery repair and rebuilding years ago.
 
Hi guys,

So this is what im dealing with on the ways of the bed.

Also,the bed ways are hardened.


Any idea how i can lower those high spots without removing too much material? I was thinking of maybe using a file.

Thanks
 
Those are not high spots. Thats where gritty oil and crud has been picked up and displaced on the way bearing surfaces of your saddle. The only way to be sure of this, is to take bluing, like Permatex high spot blue and apply a light coat to the bed ways. Carefully lay the saddle on top and proceed to push the saddle up and down the bed ways a few inches. Flip over the saddle and look at the markings. If the blue is smeared and does not show any distinctive marks, wipe off the saddle ways and try again until you get some kind of indications of where the bed ways are touching. I think you will find that those areas are worn deeper than others. Oh, what fun you're fixing to have. But this is a good place to learn how to scrape and re-fit your saddle back to the bed ways. Right off hand, the wear I see is not bad, only normal wear. Signs of a taken care of lathe IMO.
 
Hi guys,

So this is what im dealing with on the ways of the bed.

Also,the bed ways are hardened.



Any idea how i can lower those high spots without removing too much material? I was thinking of maybe using a file.

Thanks
A flat oil stone is probably best, be sure it IS flat, and not used for knife or chisel sharpening. A new one is best to be sure of flatness, and dont use it for anything else.
 
Dti in this circumstance won’t tell you as much as blue. Use the unworn section of lathe bed as reference.

I hope you have the apron supported and not just hanging on the lead screw/feed shaft?
 
Looks like a large shaft was dropped on the ways and then rolled along the back corner/edge of the rear ways at an acute angle, pushing up that ridge. Hand filing seems like a crude solution, although knocking off the entire corner wouldn't lose you a lot of surface area. Assuming the front ways was undamaged (you need to measure everything) and either side of the damaged section are also in plane, then a jig (with some linear rails) and a quality grinding spindle is the way I would try and repair it.
 
It looks to me like a good place to use my favorite tool for bumps and divots..... A "burr file".

Just a piece of a file, with the teeth rubbed with a stone so the edge on each is made flat. Now it will slide along a flat surface and not cut (because it is flat), but if anything sticks up, it will be cut off by the edge of the flats.

It is your choice how coarse the file piece is. I have made a number of them, from rather coarse to quite fine. They work really well, and for divots, burrs, or bumps, I prefer them over a stone. They seem very non-damaging to good surfaces, but cut off burrs etc very well. I choose the coarseness to use depending on the size of the burrs or bumps.
 
The bottom of the saddle looks ground because it has worn off all the scraping. In all my 50+ years of scraping machines I can only recall 1 machine that a factory used ground to ground ways and didn't scrape it. It was a European machine. The way it is now the flat on both sides is rubbed so flat it is like rubbing a gage block together and you get stick slip. Ken or 4GSR was using the scraping term high spot. He was trying to help. His Father was a machine rebuilder so he understands. Lucky 7 also is one of my A+ students and knows how to scrape. Listen to them. I would do what Lucky said and if your going to scrape blue, use the TS end.

Those are high ridges and not high spots a term we use in scraping. I would bet that the oil can't flow out of the oil groves because the soft saddle bottom it rubbed "match fit" to the bed. You need to look on the top of the machine reconditioning forum "sticky" about a Studer Grinder by Ballen in Germany - his ways were worn super flat and he got stick slip. We taught him how to scrape for oil pockets or high spots and next to the unworn surface, scraped low spots so the oil had a place to adhere to the ways. It's long, so scroll down a few pages where he has a lot of pictures.

You need to buy or borrow a hand scraper or BIAX power scraper and scrape some new oil pockets into the bottom of the saddle and then either user a dull file or a medium grit oil stone to knock off the burr high spots.

I would not assemble it as is as the machine will never get oil out of the oil grooves and you will get stick slip. You have the bed level aligned right? No twist in the bed? Please learn to scrape and do not scratch using the corner of a file. You need to learn how to checkerboard scrape the saddle. No bluing, just a preventative maintenance way scraping technique. JST or Jerry also has experience scraping.. You can watch several you tube shows on scraping. One good one to start with is -Richard King Scraping Biax (ballen attended that class, after he scraped his Studer)) a few others are NYC CNC what is scraping and Stefan Gottswinter scraping 1 and 2 . Lucky 7 lives in Canada too. I wonder if you guys could meet and he could show you how? Or I have a DVD/USB show and the Machine Reconditioning book on how to scrape and classes I sell on eBay. I hope I did not hurt your feeling as those are not a scraped High spot, it is a high scratch or ridge from wear.
 
The bottom of the saddle looks ground because it has worn off all the scraping. In all my 50+ years of scraping machines I can only recall 1 machine that a factory used ground to ground ways and didn't scrape it. It was a European machine. The way it is now the flat on both sides is rubbed so flat it is like rubbing a gage block together and you get stick slip. Ken or 4GSR was using the scraping term high spot. He was trying to help. His Father was a machine rebuilder so he understands. Lucky 7 also is one of my A+ students and knows how to scrape. Listen to them. I would do what Lucky said and if your going to scrape blue, use the TS end.

Those are high ridges and not high spots a term we use in scraping. I would bet that the oil can't flow out of the oil groves because the soft saddle bottom it rubbed "match fit" to the bed. You need to look on the top of the machine reconditioning forum "sticky" about a Studer Grinder by Ballen in Germany - his ways were worn super flat and he got stick slip. We taught him how to scrape for oil pockets or high spots and next to the unworn surface, scraped low spots so the oil had a place to adhere to the ways. It's long, so scroll down a few pages where he has a lot of pictures.

You need to buy or borrow a hand scraper or BIAX power scraper and scrape some new oil pockets into the bottom of the saddle and then either user a dull file or a medium grit oil stone to knock off the burr high spots.

I would not assemble it as is as the machine will never get oil out of the oil grooves and you will get stick slip. You have the bed level aligned right? No twist in the bed? Please learn to scrape and do not scratch using the corner of a file. You need to learn how to checkerboard scrape the saddle. No bluing, just a preventative maintenance way scraping technique. JST or Jerry also has experience scraping.. You can watch several you tube shows on scraping. One good one to start with is -Richard King Scraping Biax (ballen attended that class, after he scraped his Studer)) a few others are NYC CNC what is scraping and Stefan Gottswinter scraping 1 and 2 . Lucky 7 lives in Canada too. I wonder if you guys could meet and he could show you how? Or I have a DVD/USB show and the Machine Reconditioning book on how to scrape and classes I sell on eBay. I hope I did not hurt your feeling as those are not a scraped High spot, it is a high scratch or ridge from wear.
Thank for the reply Richard. So what your saying is that almost all machines are scraped under the sadle, cross slid and compoun?
 
Who knows if it's original. The bottom of the cross-slide or saddle bottom doesn't look like it was scraped and the compound does. We do know that the machine is about to get worse if nothing is done. Most think the reason ways get scores in the ways is because dirt get in under bad wipers. I have found score in the middle of a short side under the saddle in the middle and no scores running out to the edges. If it was from crud it would be scored all the way or from one side to the middle. The reason it is scored is because of lack of lubrication. Your machines lubrication system was plugged and that's why the ways are smooth. Your lucky it hasn't scored up. I bet if you had a straight edge or a long parallel and set it on the bottom of the saddle it would pivot in the middle (hinge). Thats why you need to hire someone or do it yourself to scrape new low oil scrape marks in the ways and to lower the center 40% so it doesn't rock when moved forward and back. Remeber when it is on the bed you can't pivot the saddle as it is trapped on the V ways. That's why you have to use a scraped straight edge or a ground parallel or a granite SE or parallel.
 








 
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