Roof Mounting - Do's and Don'ts

[PM2.5]

I'm just wondering are there any mechanical do's and don't for mounting a robot upsidedown on a celing. In this case it is a Kuka KR4. The main difficulty I can see from a mechanical perspective is bolting it in position. Do people use hoists when doing this?
I'm not an automation engineer so I'm ignorant of robotic programming in general but imagine there is no difference in programming required when roof mounting apart from the X,Y,Z axis mapping points?

 

[CITIZEN F16]

I think I would rent a scissor or boom lift if the space allows. As for mounting upside down why don't you contact the manufacturer?

 

[PM2.5]

Yes I have contacted Kuka but just looking for info from those who have built machinery and mounted robots in this orientation to see if I can garner any additional tips.

 

[mhajicek]

My gut says mount it to a sturdy frame from the floor, rather than to the roof. Building sway in the wind could cause problems with positioning.

 

[memphisjed]

ours was attached to its bridge, robot feet up, then that was hoisted up to the gantry rails. The system is floor mounted.

 

[Strostkovy]

The rigidity of the ceiling is not going to be good. I'd build a frame that attaches to as much structure as possible and know that I need to keep my acceleration controlled.

 

[Scottl]

My gut says mount it to a sturdy frame from the floor, rather than to the roof. Building sway in the wind could cause problems with positioning.

Yes, and in my experience most modern buildings (built after 1930s, 1940s) have structures that transmit a lot of vibration and do indeed move with the wind. I wouldn't think it would be a good idea for reference points to be moving with a robot. A dedicated frame anchored to a concrete slab should be a lot more stable.

 

[DDoug]

If you mount it on the roof....isn't that gonna be hard to run parts carrying them up there all the time ?...
And how about weather problems ?
"Ceiling Mounted"......
And yes, make a very rigid gantry frame to mount it on.
Carl Cloos Schweisstechnik GmbH - AKP Otomotiv - Solutions

Note very stout "C" frame.

 

[m_holcross]

PM2.5,

a long time ago I worked for a robot manufacture.

We had to mount some robots to a frame close to the ceiling.

Fork pockets on the base of the robot allowed the use of a forklift with a rotator for easy installation.

 

[Strostkovy]

Good one, dougie. Are you ever going to post anything worthwhile? Let me guess.... You'll just wait, and see how the tide swings, then you'll reply with your normal drivel.
It's so easy to to kick back, and wait, before you post. There;s a term for that. Do you know it? (ok, to be fair, ur an idiot, and u need time to google it)

He made a joke and then linked to a solution to the problem.

Maybe you didn't find it funny. But that is no reason to derail a thread to belittle someone.

Shoo.

 

[DDoug]

Good one, dougie. Are you ever going to post anything worthwhile? Let me guess.... You'll just wait, and see how the tide swings, then you'll reply with your normal drivel.
It's so easy to to kick back, and wait, before you post. There;s a term for that. Do you know it? (ok, to be fair, ur an idiot, and u need time to google it)

I've done robot installations, and made those decisions that come with that line of work, along with the responsibilities of making the wrong decision.

And proper search terms "ceiling mounted" instead of "roof mounted" certainly helps the OP find much more information.
So really....who's the troll here ? Woodsrider45...?

 

[CarbideBob]

Even a tall gantry or bridge mounted robot can have location problems due to temp or even just a forklift driving by.
There also are some robots that simply do not like being mounted upside down.

Everyone thinks of a one story building as very stiff.
One of my demos for new hires is to point the laser at a wall and ask them to push on the concert block wall.
This is done to show them the sort of numbers we work in but it also shows that everything moves with loading that would seem small compared to the structure size.
I have had machines that go from making good parts to bad if you lightly lean on the enclosure during a cycle.
Bob

 

[Strostkovy]

Even a tall gantry or bridge mounted robot can have location problems due to temp or even just a forklift driving by.
There also are some robots that simply do not like being mounted upside down.

Everyone thinks of a one story building as very stiff.
One of my demos for new hires is to point the laser at a wall and ask them to push on the concert block wall.
This is done to show them the sort of numbers we work in but it also shows that everything moves with loading that would seem small compared to the structure size.
I have had machines that go from making good parts to bad if you lightly lean on the enclosure during a cycle.
Bob

Especially with the forces involved in rapid movement. A laser cutter frame may weigh 10 tons, but if you put your forehead on the frame as it runs the amount of movement will actually hurt.

Welding robots on sturdy premade skids flop around so much during rapid travel that you can see the base flexing.

 

[Ox]

Doo you git snow in Ireland?

A local outfit uses autonomous material handler trucks that use a series of lights hung from the ceiling for guidance.

If they git too much [heavy] snow on the roof, it will droop and the trucks are helpless.

They ended up hanging a string (?) from the roof with a known height from the floor, and check it in the winter as needed.
It is known as their "Sag-O-Meter".



I have seen Motoman hang robots off the wall in the McCormick Center (another Mick?) and all seemed fine, but they were big 'bots and they had low accel/decel gains. A jerky machine would aggravate the situation I would think.


------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DDoug]

I used to see the above linked Cloos welding robots set up that way, from an overhead gantry. All of the robot builders probably offer it, but Cloos seemed
to doo a bunch of them.

 

[PM2.5]

Thanks all, we call them roof mounted here in our company in little old Ireland. But ceiling is the better term I guess.

 

[DDoug]

Thanks all, we call them roof mounted here in our company in little old Ireland. But ceiling is the better term I guess.

Yup, I figured a simple change in search terms would prove fruitful.

 

[matt_isserstedt]

I've been involved with a couple, the framework is hella stout for rigidity and extremely cross-braced as much as possible.

One was a spot welding app with something like a Fanuc R2000iA and the two moved pretty slowly, the other was a rapid pick and place "spider" installation and it had an extremely large overhead framework. None were ever changed out but the smaller robot arrives in a steel cage already hanging. The initial installation had a smaller piece of the framework that was loaded after the main structure was delivered and set.