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Saved a Hendey from the scrappers yesterday

Hobby Shop

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Location
Michigan
I’ve been following along and I give you a lot of credit for keeping your old iron working, good job. :D
You’re a better man than me. I would’ve stripped it, scrapped it and had a new machine in its place before the sun went down. :eek:
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
I’ve been following along and I give you a lot of credit for keeping your old iron working, good job. :D
You’re a better man than me. I would’ve stripped it, scrapped it and had a new machine in its place before the sun went down. :eek:

Thanks! Sentiment is a dangerous thing.... One reason I'm keeping this one going is for the practical experience, and also because for it's the size/capacity, It has some really neat features and points of construction that I hadn't seen in other lathes. You definitely have to choose your battles though. There's only so many hours in a day and only so many square feet of floor space.
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
The Rulon came in today, and the Bronze and Garolite came in last week. I'm going to hold off gluing things together until the Scraping class starts on the 22nd so the rest of the class can see the process.
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
I finished milling the top of my saddle tonight. Next I'm going to set it back up on the surface plate and map out the remaining variances and high spots that will come off with the scraper.
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I was able to lose more of the damage than I thought I would. I also drilled the oil holes for the bed ways. I decided to keep them simple (no one-shot system) and put 2 holes approximately 1/3 of the way in from the ends over each V-way. They are counter drilled so that after the scraping is done, I will press in ball oiler caps. When I eventually get the bed ways and bottom side of the saddle addressed, I'll connect the oil holes to some oil grooves.
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I also got the broken T-slot repaired. I used cold-roll steel and lock-tight'd the screws in place. Lastly I'll fill the screw heads in with some lead to keep swarf out. I don't think it was broken from use, but rather from the saddle being beat'n on. I plan on using the T-slots to hold guards, coolant lines, indicators, etc. and think it would be fun one day to do a line-boring job on this lathe. I'd like to make a steam-engine or two one day, so maybe having this lathe "line-bore ready" will justify building a cylinder block with a long stroke.;)
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This is the J.B. Weld fill I used to fill in the Arc-of-Shame on the saddle. The corners broke off while I was cutting the ways (but otherwise it held in there well), So I'll do one last fill before I primer the raw-cast areas and scrape everything in.

I also cut out a pair of Bronze gibs. I'm still working out how I'll retain the non-adjusting side, but I'm thinking it may work into some little brass way-wipers I want to make to help keep the ways clean. I also need to put the oil holes in the cross-slide. There's a hole running through the chuck side for a micrometer stop rod that is in the way, but I should be able to work around it.
 

swatkins

Titanium
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Navasota / Whitehall Texas
I'm thinking about changing directions with the electrical enclosure again. The steel cabinet I was going to hang off the back of the chip pan would work, but it's not quite the right size and has a lot of space that wouldn't be useful. So I'm thinking about building a free-standing cabinet out of hardwood. I've seen similar arrangements on "high-tech" machinery from this time period so it would be period appropriate, but it would be easier to fab too which would get it off the ground faster (we have some 1" by 13" planks of Spanish oak with nothing better to do). Incorporating a ventilation fan would be easy to do.

I'm not so sure make the electrical enclosure out of wood is the best Idea you've had lately..... Wood, electricity and oil work well if you are trying to make a bond fire, not so good when building a machine tool.

Also I think it would probably give your insurance inspector, or electrical inspector, a minor stroke the next time they walk through your shop. :D
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
I'm not so sure make the electrical enclosure out of wood is the best Idea you've had lately..... Wood, electricity and oil work well if you are trying to make a bond fire, not so good when building a machine tool.

Also I think it would probably give your insurance inspector, or electrical inspector, a minor stroke the next time they walk through your shop. :D

It's no different than running wires and fixtures around a wood frame home. It isn't very elaborate, just a free standing enclosure for the VFD with a ventilation fan, status lamp, and a junction box. We don't keep power "live" on machines in our shop 24/7 either. If the machine doesn't have a master disconnect switch, then the service disconnect is turned off when you're done at a machine. That way if there are any components giving off heat (transformers or just old components), they are taken out of service while someone's not at the machine.

We actually had a bandsaw catch fire out-of-the-blue a few years ago. Luckily it was during business hours, but we found out that it had a control transformer that was always "on" and heating up (old saw). After that, we made it a shop wide policy to kill power to machinery when not in use, and we also started adding status lamps to machines and work stations.

I wouldn't use wood for an electrical insulator, and a sealed enclosure with no air flow is going to be more of an issue IMO.
 

swatkins

Titanium
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Navasota / Whitehall Texas
It's no different than running wires and fixtures around a wood frame home.

Ever seen how many house fires are started by electrical? When I was fighting fires it was about 30% of all fires we fought.

The purpose of the metal enclosures is to keep the sparks, heat and fire contained and away from combustible materials in case something gets too hot, fails or shorts out... Wood may look nice but it is a fuel source. As it gets older it drys out and become even more dangerous.

Like I said your just trying to put the inspectors in the hospital :)
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Ever seen how many house fires are started by electrical? When I was fighting fires it was about 30% of all fires we fought.

The purpose of the metal enclosures is to keep the sparks, heat and fire contained and away from combustible materials in case something gets too hot, fails or shorts out... Wood may look nice but it is a fuel source. As it gets older it drys out and become even more dangerous.

Like I said your just trying to put the inspectors in the hospital :)

Well I could always come up with something better later. It's better than the cardboard box I used to get it up and running ;). This lathe is always under lock-out/tag-out unless I'm personally working on it.

To get the lathe away from the padlock, I need to finish the belt guard too, but to do so I'll need to pull the pulleys back off. I'm thinking about digging back into the head-stock while it's apart to get a better idea of which parts on the front tumbler/shaft are causing noise and movement.
 

CountryBoy19

Stainless
Joined
Aug 14, 2012
Location
Bedford, IN
It's no different than running wires and fixtures around a wood frame home.

Generally you're not making electrical connections, and housing electrical equipment prone to causing sparks in an exposed area of a home. Connections have to be in boxes that are resilient to sparking. Ever seen a VFD "go"? I've had one go and there was a pretty good amount of sparks coming from the air inlet and outlet of the vent fan... Generally, in industry, housing things that can catastrophically fail causing any type of spark or arc must be enclosed in a rated enclosure.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I'm not saying you can't house it in a wood box. You can do what you want, you get to determine your own tolerance for risk. I'm just pointing out that it is, in-fact, different from the wiring in a house.
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
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So the Texas 2019 scraping class is over. I didn't finish the cross slide, but I got a good start on it. First step was to set it back on three 1-2-3 blocks and run an indicator all over it and see how far it needed to go. The wings on the right were high enough that I'm going to fly cut them again before I finish scrap them. I want all 4 wings to be level within .001 and scraped for cosmetics.
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The ways were .003 high in front, which I step-scraped down, and then took a break from them to get the cross slide done. I mocked it up and found that my assumptions about needing 2 gibs to shift the cross slide to the left were wrong. I didn't think about how building the cross-slide up on the bottom would naturally shift it over as it slides up the dovetail, and 1/8" of height was all that was needed to get the stop rods, lead-screw, and taper attachment parts to line back up.

I scratched and scraped the surface ground bottom to give it some good texture and then mixed up and spread the epoxy with the rest of the class. We stuck the 1/8" thick rulon strips (cut oversize) in place and set it over a sheet of plastic on the surface plate with a milling vise on top for weight. Did this Saturday evening, then Monday morning I used a razor and my pocket knife to trim all the tailings off the edges.
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The rulon was bowed before it was glued on, and when I started scraping there was a low spot in the middle, but it came in.
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M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
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I started scraping the rulon with my Biax, but Richard recommended hand scraping it to reduce the chance of scratching it. To rough it in, we sharpened up a flaking blade and push scraped it at a low angle until I had good coverage front to back, then I switched to using a long scraper blade held at a high angle like a pen and "pull" scraped it. This was fairly easy to do and it didn't take long to get my bearing surface up. It could be better and it's still low on the inside edges, but I did get the ends and chuck side higher to wall off swarf from getting under the slide.
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I still need to scrap in the non-gib dovetail side of the cross slide, and this will be the surface that I fit the other side to, but first I'm going to finish scraping the flats on the saddle. I'm using my 24" straight edge, but am also checking the progress with the now flat cross slide to keep both sides co-plainer. I'm not too concerned about how square the cross slide is to the bed yet since the bed still has so far to go. I'll check how square it is to some perpendicular geometries on the saddle, but otherwise plan to address this when the bed is refitted. I'll likely go the Moglic route and can correct any alignment between them then.

One oddity has been a "sponge" area of the saddle. After it was cut, oil started oozing out of a rather porous part of the ways. I'll wipe it off and in 24 hours there's fresh drops again. Self-lubricating ways!:D
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I also decided to mill a shallow relief between the surface of the wings and the ways as the current corner has been hard to scrape into without leaving some nasty gouges. A 3/8" wide shallow grove on either side of the ways will fix this. I also still need to drill oil holes in the cross slide and once they're in, I'm going to make a oil groove channeling tool and cut those in the rulon.
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Another year goes by and Tory is still waiting for me to finish the saddle:(. Life and projects and all.

I got the reliefs cut between the top surfaces of the saddle and the cross slide ways. Right now I have it set-up to mill a final pass on the top surfaces near the chuck to get them more parallel with the bottom reference surfaces (and remove more nicks and gouges). After that I need to finish scraping the flat surfaces and scrap the dove tailed surfaces to fit. Should have had all that done a long time ago....

I did get some other lesser tasks done (little victories). The motors new amp-meter has a permanent mounting panel.
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I had some time a few months back and decided to get the tail stock and the steady rests done. The steady's were missing a few of their original square head bolts, which can be and were replaced with off-the-shelf fasteners, but I'm machining originals to take their places for convenience so that all the bolts can be adjusted with the same 5/8" square wrench. Otherwise they're ready to go.
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I started painting everything. I figured it would be easiest to do as I'm going through the lathe rather than waiting for it to become oil soaked again, and it's morally encouraging. I'm using Kryon Tough Coat Dark Machinery Grey. It goes on nice in a single coat.
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M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Sturdy looking Hook Head - getting ready for the next 100 years

I use that one on a little rolling jib crane to help handle my bigger straight edges. It's just parked there at the moment. We have several rope block-n-tackles around the shop that get frequently used. Each one is tagged with a date of when the rope was last replaced and the safe load limits. They're handy when you need to lift something that isn't necessarily heavy, but they save your back and give you added control.
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M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Haven't updated this project in awhile. Covid has hit our business just like everyone, but fortunately we're still very busy. I've just had to be selective with what "fun" projects I spend time on. Also had another baby boy in November, and been busy doing land work on our property (because we can't budget outsourcing it). We did sell our other 15" engine lathe (making room for a new CNC), so that has put some helpful pressure on getting this lathe going. These are the many battle fronts that this lathe is sitting on currently:

1. Still refitting the saddle and cross-slide. I've paused working on the cross-slide ways and am focusing on getting the top of the saddle scraped in. Nearly every top surface on the saddle had to be fly-cut and my less-than-stellar milling set-up left a lot of clean-up needed with the scraper, so it's taking time to get it all flat again. The top of the saddle I'm just trying to get within .001 all around parallel with the bottom of the saddle, while the ways will be 20PPI. When I do have time to play, it's usually a couple hours here and there, so haven't been able to double down on the scraping, BUT, I did end up with a bigger surface plate in the shop last year which is making measuring my progress much easier.

2. I have all the pieces cut for the belt guard. Just need to finish welding, paint it, and make some simple stand-offs to mount it on the machine.

3. Thanks to eBay, I found the last missing gear guard from the feed-gear-train. It's the right one for my size of lathe, but will need a couple corners nibbled on to fit with the other guards.

4. You will all be happy to know I went back on my plan to make a wood electrical enclosure (no house fires). I revisited the steel cabinet I had saved from the Czech turret lathe I scrapped and found a better way to mount it behind the head-stock and position the components inside.

5. I've been piecing together the missing 3H collet set. The collet tube I found is a perfect fit for my machine BUT, the flat belt and belt guard collide with the closer hand wheel, so I plan to make a 4" extension and a 4" spacer sleeve to off-set the tube and clear the guard. I'm also working with Hendeyman to get prints for the missing pieces of the bed mounted collet set cabinet (see this thread for more details on this project: Hendey Collet Box parts).

6. In addition to the bed mounted collet box, I'm also planning on reproducing the bed-mounted wood tool box and probably the floor standing wood pyramid for storing face-plates (hendeyman's a saint!). These options were advertised in this era with some high end 12" lathes. My lathe's a 16", but the cutting-edge electric drive lends it towards a high end out-fit in my imagination. Once the drawings arrive, I'll see how big of a task making the mortised wood pieces will be.

7. I'm setting up to re-pour my Babbit half-nuts. My plan involves a fixture to hold the halves and an acme-thread core that mimics the lead screw (since the lead screw is so long and has a key-way running along it that inhibits a good mold). More details on that project here: Babbitt Re-pour Questions.

8. I'm also working on getting the feed worms and feed worm gears replaced in the apron. Not yet decided if I'll outsource them to hendeyman or tackle them ourselves.

9. I've located a few other spindle plates and chucks. Once the saddle's back together, my first job will be to cut away the 4-jaw chucks stuck back plate and replace it.

10. Still doing clean-up and painting. As I noted before, the painting is not necessary right now, but I'd rather do it when the castings are clean than later once they're soaked in cutting oil. It does build moral for a project that's taking a long time to complete.
 

riftware

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
It's been fascinating to follow your journey - I've only begun mine and really really hope it completes this year - I haven't even begun to assess wear on my ways...I'm not a production shop so I'll only poke that bear if I have trouble making a part to tolerance. Thanks for sharing all this info
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
It's been fascinating to follow your journey - I've only begun mine and really really hope it completes this year - I haven't even begun to assess wear on my ways...I'm not a production shop so I'll only poke that bear if I have trouble making a part to tolerance. Thanks for sharing all this info

Thanks!

I've honestly approached this lathe the same way out of necessity. From the beginning I knew I wouldn't have time to fully restore it right away and I would need to balance restoring parts of it and repairing parts of it. Fortunately I've had it operational at least enough to know it's potential,and getting the saddle and cross-slide re-scraped has put it down for much longer than I want, but it'll be worth it in the long run.
 

riftware

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 14, 2020
those scraping classes sound interesting... how often do they run and where in texas are they? (I'm in Tulsa)

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
those scraping classes sound interesting... how often do they run and where in texas are they? (I'm in Tulsa)

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

They were every February at a PM members shop near Navasota, but I'm not sure if he or Richard King are planning another there. You might message Richard and see when/where his next Texas class will be. They're not free and last 3-5 days, but it gives you a good dose of the basics (plus its fun to get around other old iron crazies;)).
 

M.B. Naegle

Titanium
Joined
Feb 7, 2011
Location
Conroe, TX USA
Something I've been looking into these last few weeks: After all that work putting together a flat-belt drive for this lathe, I'm concerned it's causing some problems.

The pulleys are larger than what's ideal, particularly with the diameter and width of the headstock pulley, as it is really close to the spindle bore and requires the collet closer to be offset to the left with spacers. The pair can't really be much smaller though as a narrower smaller motor pulley won't transmit enough power. Size wise, I'm happy to work with it as it is, BUT, my biggest concern is that the last few time's I've run the head-stock there has been some rattling and movement in the front shaft of the headstock, which is the one that the pulley mounts to. It seems like it started after fully tensioning the flat belt and goes away if I loosen it, so I think the belt tension is putting some deflection into the head-stock.:(

If this was an overhead driven machine, I could run it looser without problems, but the close proximity pulleys and smaller motor pulley require more tension to avoid slip, so short term I'll run it loose and see if the belt breaks in over time, but long term I'm getting a quote for a silent chain drive from these guys: Ramsey Products | Ramsey Silent Chain.

I'm still trying to balance keeping the machine practically functional, and making it "original." Most of the lathes out there and catalog images I've seen for motor driven lathes of this age show a gear drive or silent chain drive. There's no evidence of the required mounts for the gear drive so that rules that one out. All of the chain drives I've seen were AC motors with a clutch, but the headstock shaft is not built for the clutch and likewise there's no evidence of the other lever movement parts. I'm thinking though that my lathes original DC drive and apron control negated the need for the clutch so they just had a simplified direct drive silent chain. I'm never going to be able to replace the variable speed DC drive, so I'll stick with my VFD controlled AC motor set-up to mimic it.

That said, I'm thinking that a silent chain drive will give the needed power transmission with smaller sprockets so there's no clearance issues with the headstock bore, and require less loaded tension on the headstock shaft so it isn't deflecting. On the bright side, The pulleys are "generic" and will go into other projects. I hadn't finished the belt guard yet so I can cut it down for the narrower sprockets, then I'll only be out for making the current headstock pulley adapter and belt.

I'll report back if the silent chain quote pans out affordably (I'm not really up to dropping $2000 into a chain and sprockets:ack2:). If not I might have to go back to the "modern" V-belts.:cryin:
 








 
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