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Slightly OT: Has the specification for wire gauge changed?

Bill D

Diamond
Joined
Apr 1, 2004
Location
Modesto, CA USA
households run on 220v, not 110, so the wire size is totally different. I also don't remember seeing any labelling on electrical wire but if they did, it would be in Chinese and metric, not imperial and English.

Emanual you say wire in China is different, how? You say they do not use romex so is it all conduit or knob and tube? I assume insulated wire is modern plastic insulation in China. Rubber insualtion was gone soon after WW2 in North America. The house I grew up in had plastic insulated romex with woven tarpaper over the jacket. built 1949.
Bill D
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I only mention this because it seems like it was implied that I am some kind of retard for not measuring the wire.

So your saying you can do something stupid, but it's not actually stupid because you're not actually retarded?

Just so we're clear, measuring the wire would have been step number one. Then you could look up the size range for the AWG. Then you could avoid asking questions of such intelligence.
 

boslab

Titanium
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
Location
wales.uk
Puts me in mind of that wonderful involute roebling wire calculator, very clever, gives the resistance etc, now I’m thinking of the best bridge in the world, funny the mind is
Mark
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
Emanual you say wire in China is different, how? You say they do not use romex so is it all conduit or knob and tube? I assume insulated wire is modern plastic insulation in China.

The only houses I've seen made of wood are way out west. Almost all construction is either a high-rise with concrete floors and brick partition walls or plain brick. Individual wires are run through plastic baseboard conduit with snapon covers and outlet cavities are made with hammer drills. Most older houses have no ground and it's all 220v 50 hz. I've seen grandmas testing for the hot lead with one of those light-inna-screwdriver kind of things, makes me shake my head and wonder why more people are not electrocuted. At least the new stuff is grounded. I can't remember ever seeing two or three conductor romex anywhere.


Gordon Heaton said:
You seem to believe the chinese can do no wrong. That's ok if it makes you happy. I'm actually a pretty decent fellow (for a pile of dog shit anyway!) Relax. Life's too short to spend it fuming.
You were raised differently than I. I do not believe lying about a whole group of people just because you dislike them is okay. There is absolutely zero evidence here that China has anything to do with this guy's wire being the correct size. I don't think it's okay to lie about China, I don't believe it's okay to lie about Johnny Depp, I don't think it's okay to lie about Donald Trump. If there is a logical reason to criticize that's fine but pulling this crap out your ass on every occasion, just to smear a person or a group of people, that is ethically dogshit. It appears that you believe that's okay, but I don't agree.

This new editor is kind of a pain in the rear.
 

JasonPAtkins

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
To quote Amber Heard, "Suck my dick."

There are no Chinese hardware stores in the US. Chinese writing is totally different from English. In fact, I don't remember seeing any labelling on the wire used in China and since they run 220v and I've not seen Romex, it's entirely different from what is sold in the US. Walmart, Lowes, etc all buy and check the items they sell. This kind of stupid, unsolicited and unwarranted garbage-slinging is beneath contempt ... as are the people who engage in it.

ESAD.
You're right about the Romex and 220v part, but I've bought Chinese-made wire where the 100 meter roll had 90 meters of wire because the "1m" "2m" "3m" markings on the wire were exactly 90cm apart. Think that wasn't intentional at the factory?

Annoying as the conduit run was 94m!
 

JasonPAtkins

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
also don't remember seeing any labelling on electrical wire but if they did, it would be in Chinese and metric, not imperial and English.
That's categorically untrue. Chinese made products are often labeled for their intended destination, in the local language. See it all the time here in West Africa where the stuff is labeled in Portuguese (our previous colonial mothership).
 
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JasonPAtkins

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
I'm not anti-Chinese, btw, either as a country or people. I've met incredibly efficient, hard-working Chinese teams over here.

But I don't think anyone can deny that sometimes specs aren't met and then labeled as of they were. I suppose this has probably always been true of work coming out of whichever country is known as the cheapest place to make stuff at the moment. Companies going there to have stuff made are doing so because they expect it cheap.
 
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Airstrip One, Oceania
That's categorically untrue. Chinese made products are often labeled for their intended destination, in the local language. See it all the time here in West Africa where the stuff is labeled in Portuguese (our previous colonial mothership).

No, you are categorically wrong There are no Chinese hardware stores in the US. Anything sourced in China is specced, purchased, q/a-ed, and sold in US stores such as Walmart and Lowes. The party responsible is the retail company who specs, buys, inspects, and sells the product.

Which, by the way, in this case was not only of undetermined origin but actually fit the description for 12 gage wire, which our intrepid poster didn't bother to check.

This is true of any product sold in a store.

But I don't think anyone can deny that sometimes specs aren't met and then labeled as of they were. I suppose this has probably always been true of work coming out of whichever country is known as the cheapest place to make stuff at the moment.
As is also true where the product is from a country known as the most expensive. Ask the people whose children were sickened by Made in USA Enfamil. There are shit products made in the US (two space shuttles out of five disappeared in fiery balls of scrap metal due to shit o-rings and ridiculous foam insulation), there are shit products made in the UK, there are shit products made in India, there are shit products made in Germany. Flinging the jingoist crap when you have absolutely no idea whether there is even a problem or not is mentally retarded and dishonest. In this case, for example, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the wire, which probably didn't even come from China.
 
Last edited:

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
I beg to differ. It was not a "silly" post at all. Both cables are marked #12. After nearly forty years in the trade, I can at least tell when something is bigger then something else. I only mention this because it seems like it was implied that I am some kind of retard for not measuring the wire. I thought that wire was marked as a certain physical size, not the ability to conduct due to the composition. Bill D offered the only plausible explanation that perhaps they are rated differently now. That was the intent of my original post, to find out if that may be the case. Just as a follow up, I just went to the shop and measured the wire with my "five dollar" Starrett mics. The old wire marked #12 is .1005" in diameter and the new wire, also marked #12 is .0780"
"After nearly forty years in the trade"
and again with the vagueness.
What "Trade" would that be sir ?

Best to ask this question on a....wait for it "electrician's forum"....Duh
 

MilGunsmith

Stainless
Joined
Mar 6, 2006
Location
Sandyston, NJ
I just got rid of a 250' roll of old white insulated Romex that was marked 12-2 w/ground that upon cutting into was only 12-2 without ground. Coil wrapping and the entire length was marked 12-2 w/ground so marking mistakes happen. I didn't think that they ever made Romex without a ground.
 

GregSY

Diamond
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Houston
There was, and has been, absolutely no finding that children were 'sickened' by US made Enfamil.

There was, and has been, a great deal of people sickened by shallow liberal though, policies, and parasitic behavior.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
No, you are categorically wrong There are no Chinese hardware stores in the US. Anything sourced in China is specced, purchased, q/a-ed, and sold in US stores such as Walmart and Lowes. The party responsible is the retail company who specs, buys, inspects, and sells the product.

Which, by the way, in this case was not only of undetermined origin but actually fit the description for 12 gage wire, which our intrepid poster didn't bother to check.

This is true of any product sold in a store.


As is also true where the product is from a country known as the most expensive. Ask the people whose children were sickened by Made in USA Enfamil. There are shit products made in the US (two space shuttles out of five disappeared in fiery balls of scrap metal due to shit o-rings and ridiculous foam insulation), there are shit products made in the UK, there are shit products made in India, there are shit products made in Germany. Flinging the jingoist crap when you have absolutely no idea whether there is even a problem or not is mentally retarded and dishonest. In this case, for example, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the wire, which probably didn't even come from China.
Where was the country where manufacturers added melamine to baby formula?

Oh hmmm.....

your hysterical defense of PRC is unconvincing

and pet food
I am sure the manufacturer of the pet food in question asked for 'extra melamine please'
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I want to thank the masses for not giving Mr. Gold a fist fight.
And Mr. Gold, you need to calm yourself down or you will likely find yourself in a corner somewhere.
You know better than this.
You can get your point across ever so slightly more diplomatically I am sure.


EDIT:
Well, it looks like someone else gave him a warning in the mean time.


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

GregSY

Diamond
Joined
Jan 1, 2005
Location
Houston
The number of "US" businesses owened by the Chinese is staggering. Even worse is the number of acres of US soil owned by the Chinese. Will our country ever pull its head out of its ass? Doubtful.
 

JST

Diamond
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Location
St Louis
No, you are categorically wrong There are no Chinese hardware stores in the US. Anything sourced in China is specced, purchased, q/a-ed, and sold in US stores such as Walmart and Lowes. The party responsible is the retail company who specs, buys, inspects, and sells the product.
...............................
Nonsense. Wrong. Obviously you have never dealt with the 3rd level down folks at many contract manufacturers (CMs). Those are the ones making export product.

I have SEEN the spec, and SEEN the result. Not even close for some things we had made over there.

Asked for a correction. New sample had the correction made, but ANOTHER thing changed away from spec.

Asked for that to be corrected. It was, but the FIRST item went right back to the original bad condition.

It was damn near impossible to play their game of "whack-a-screwup".

Then there was the time the CM changed a PCB layout to one that could not work in a specific condition. That after making it correctly for some time in the approved way. That cost us a lot of money.

In case you do not know it, you cannot return ANYTHING to china. To get it, you must pay for it, using a letter of credit. Once you pay, it is yours absolutely. It's on "your side of the line" for the chinese port authorities.

Nope, there are some unscrupulous and plain stupid folks running factories over there, who have NO issues with sneaky changes that save them money.

Emmanuel Goldstein.... you have drunk the Xi koolaid, and simply have no idea what really happens. I have actually seen it, and been over there.
 

JasonPAtkins

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 30, 2010
Location
Guinea-Bissau, West Africa
No, you are categorically wrong There are no Chinese hardware stores in the US. Anything sourced in China is specced, purchased, q/a-ed, and sold in US stores such as Walmart and Lowes. The party responsible is the retail company who specs, buys, inspects, and sells the product.

Which, by the way, in this case was not only of undetermined origin but actually fit the description for 12 gage wire, which our intrepid poster didn't bother to check.

This is true of any product sold in a store.


As is also true where the product is from a country known as the most expensive. Ask the people whose children were sickened by Made in USA Enfamil. There are shit products made in the US (two space shuttles out of five disappeared in fiery balls of scrap metal due to shit o-rings and ridiculous foam insulation), there are shit products made in the UK, there are shit products made in India, there are shit products made in Germany. Flinging the jingoist crap when you have absolutely no idea whether there is even a problem or not is mentally retarded and dishonest. In this case, for example, there was absolutely nothing wrong with the wire, which probably didn't even come from China.
I was responding to your assertion that if the writing on the wire wasn't in Chinese, it couldn't be Chinese-made wire. You're clearly wrong, as I cited the specific example of chinese-made wire which has Portuguese writing on the jacket because it was made (in China) destined for a Portuguese market. Obviously the writing is printed on the wire in China, not Home Depot.

Sometimes you think you can provide helpful information in a thread, but in this case I think the old quote about arguing with a fool may be more applicable. I'm out.
 

clubairth

Plastic
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Thanks for posting that as when I use my wire strippers and see the modern wire very often does not seem to match standard wire gauges? Either it cuts the wire or only takes off part of the insulation.

Lot's of modern wire is odd sized. Regardless of what it marked with on the jacket.
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eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
I was responding to your assertion that if the writing on the wire wasn't in Chinese, it couldn't be Chinese-made wire. You're clearly wrong, as I cited the specific example of chinese-made wire which has Portuguese writing on the jacket because it was made (in China) destined for a Portuguese market. Obviously the writing is printed on the wire in China, not Home Depot.

Sometimes you think you can provide helpful information in a thread, but in this case I think the old quote about arguing with a fool may be more applicable. I'm out.

I'd guess the point he's trying to make (in his usual blunt - to put it mildly - manner, :) ) is that the merchants are at fault for putting any faulty or inferior product on the shelves, and not doing due diligence in terms of inspection. While I get the gist of that argument, it is a crying shame that the state of manufacturing has come to that.

Time was, you could have a relationship with a manufacturer and trust that you didn't have to babysit them. That commonly doesn't seem to work as well when sourcing from China. The same could almost certainly be said for other "new to the global manufacturing sphere" countries, but the fact remains.
 








 
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