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South bend Series O Refurbishment Help Needed

alcofrisbas

Plastic
Joined
Feb 25, 2023
Hello, I'm new here.

I recently came across a 1925 South Bend 11" in pieces for a very nice price. Looking at the machine in the guy's shop, I could tell it was mostly there. I have the machine reassembled and am fabricating an attachment point for a motor bracket now. I'm running into a few minor issues here and there, but nothing wswells or tubalcain can't handle. I've decided to make sure the thing works fully before I do any type of full restoration. My big hurdle now is tooling and chucks. I'm not sure how to proceed, as I have no access to other machining equipment. The spindle size is 1-5/8"x8 and it has a faceplate with 7/16" holes(4) at 4-1/16" circle diameter. Every chuck I've found online both new and used does not fit this setup. I have a center and dogs, but I would like to be able to turn on a chuck and not between centers for everything... There are a few other questions I have, but this one is really getting to me. If you all have any other advice or tips, I am all ears! Thank you for your time.
 
Hello, I'm new here.

I recently came across a 1925 South Bend 11" in pieces for a very nice price. Looking at the machine in the guy's shop, I could tell it was mostly there. I have the machine reassembled and am fabricating an attachment point for a motor bracket now. I'm running into a few minor issues here and there, but nothing wswells or tubalcain can't handle. I've decided to make sure the thing works fully before I do any type of full restoration. My big hurdle now is tooling and chucks. I'm not sure how to proceed, as I have no access to other machining equipment. The spindle size is 1-5/8"x8 and it has a faceplate with 7/16" holes(4) at 4-1/16" circle diameter. Every chuck I've found online both new and used does not fit this setup. I have a center and dogs, but I would like to be able to turn on a chuck and not between centers for everything... There are a few other questions I have, but this one is really getting to me. If you all have any other advice or tips, I am all ears! Thank you for your time.
As of now you have unwanted stuff in the "face plate" - so far it's only useful attribute is that it screws on your spindle nose - which is odd ball only because it is so old a thread (looking for anything with a 1 5/8 - 8 thread will be likely non productive). What is wanted is a differing "face plate" machined to fit what ever chuck you settle on AND your spindle nose This very possibly needs to happen in some other shop that does have the "stuff " to do it with
Simpler yet, DISCARD the idea that you will "find" some "face plate" that connects to some chuck AND your spindle nose - and spend all your time making that scenario happen yourself - involving others as needed. A natural place to start would be to make your face plate fit some flat back chuck - by machining it to suit
 
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What you want is called a "back plate", and you usually can buy them already threaded to your spindle nose - You then machine them, on your lathe, to fit your chuck. You can also get blank, un-threaded ones.
In your case, the 1 5/8" nose will make it hard to find one already threaded - I looked briefly, and no dice. If it's your only lathe, you might need to get someone to thread one for you.
 
As others have stated, you have an uncommon spindle nose. In the days when lathes with threaded spindle noses were in common use, backplates (or faceplates, driveplates,) were made in the shop where the lathe was in use. Cast iron backplate blanks were sold in shop supply stores as a regular feature.

Not knowing your experience level and how your lathe is equipped in terms of change gears (or quick change box ?) for cutting different pitch threads is the big question. If your lathe can be setup (either by combination of change gears, aka "loose change gears", or by quick change box) to cut 8 threads/inch, you can make a backplate in the lathe itself.

My own method is to turn a chunk of round stock to make a male threaded facsimile of the spindle nose. I call this a 'dummy gauge'. To cut the male threads, measuring the actual spindle threads using the three-wire method (known as 'measuring over the wires') is necessary. Asking a shop to make you a backplate is OK, but without precise measurements of the lathe's spindle nose, they are not going to be able to make a backplate that threads onto the spindle with a good close and accurate fit. There is an unthreaded portion of the spindle called the 'register', and that has to be measured with a micrometer. The backplate has to be bored to a very close fit on that register, aside from having a good close fit on the threads. Making the dummy gauge to match your spindle is step 1 if you are going to make a backplate yourself. If you are going to give the job out to another shop, then precise measurements are what's needed. No using a digital slide caliper... it's really a job for a micrometer and three-wire method.

Once you have the measurements, whether you make a backplate or pay someone to do it for you is your call. Backplate blanks for threaded spindle noses are still available but are pricey. I've made backplates out of steel, using a disc of steel plate and a chunk of round bar. My own 'druthers is to go for what is known as a "Complete Joint Penetration Weld" , or as close to it as possible, to tie the round bar hub into the plate disc. I turn bore the disc to a diameter a bit smaller than the finished diameter the round bar will be turned to for the hub. I then turn a section of the round bar to fit into that bore snugly. I put a heavy chamfer on both the end of the round bar and the mouth of the bore in the plate disc. This chamfer extends to almost the full thickness of the plate. I then weld the round bar hub into the disc, filling that chamfered area with multiple passes of weld. I also run a 3-pass fillet weld around the base of the round bar where it seats on the plate. I peen the weld with an air needle scaler to relax it, and "quarter" each pass to divide or try to equalize weld stresses. The result is a solid job, with the round bar and hub being as close to one piece as possible. I leave a 'land' at the base of the chamfer in the bore of the plate, and this land is maybe 1/8" wide. The land and shoulder align and seat the round bar, centered and square to the disc. I try to do a backwoods stress relieving on these sorts of weldments. Namely, I put the completed weldment into a wood fire or into the firebox of our coal fired boiler during heating season. Let it soak in the heat until red hot, let it stay there with the fire on low draft for maybe an hour or so. Then, into a bucket of dry coal ash to cool slowly. A day or two later, I clean up the weldment with wire wheel and needle scaler and can begin machining.
This relieves 'locked in stresses' from the heavy welding operation. I use 'stick' welding rather than MIG, and really 'burn in' the weld with E 6010 for the root passes, and E 7018 for the hot and cover passes. No wide weave of the weld, just stringer beads with maybe a little weave at most, to try to limit weld stresses and resulting distortion of the plate. This is why when an opportunity to buy a cast iron backplate blank came along, I jumped right on it.

Making a backplate lets you thread the backplate to a precise fit on your lathe spindle. Once made up, it is turned to diameters to fit the chuck(s) you want to use. It is best done on the lathe spindle itself, so the backplate is married to that lathe and runs nice and true. Without a chuck for the lathe, if a person had no other alternative, the blank could be moun ted on the faceplate for machining. A screw cutting lathe is an incredible machine tool in that it can make parts for itself, limited only by the ingenuity and skill of the person using that lathe.
 
Post a picture of the setup. How hard could it be to mount a chuck directly to the faceplate you do not want to use?
 
As of now you have unwanted stuff in the "face plate" - so far it's only useful attribute is that it screws on your spindle nose - which is odd ball only because it is so old a thread (looking for anything with a 1 5/8 - 8 thread will be likely non productive). What is wanted is a differing "face plate" machined to fit what ever chuck you settle on AND your spindle nose This very possibly needs to happen in some other shop that does have the "stuff " to do it with
Simpler yet, DISCARD the idea that you will "find" some "face plate" that connects to some chuck AND your spindle nose - and spend all your time making that scenario happen yourself - involving others as needed. A natural place to start would be to make your face plate fit some flat back chuck - by machining it to suit
This is definitely a good route. thank you! I do have buddies that can help me out with this. Thanks!
 
Here is a "home made" with just a little "adjust ability"

 
Yeah, that odd spindle thread is a challenge! IIRC, it's a contemporary "Sharp Vee" thread profile, which would be shown in a contemporary "Machinery's Handbook."

IF I understand the OP, he has "The spindle size is 1-5/8"x8 and it has a faceplate with 7/16" holes(4) at 4-1/16" circle diameter."

As previously noted, this sounds like a BACKPLATE, for a "Plain Back" chuck.

Please post the Outside Diameter, OD, of this backplate.

"Plain Back" chucks have a recess in the back. The OD of the backplate fits very snugly into the ID of the recess. The chuck "registers" on the rim of the backplate. The four bolts through the chuck just hold it to the backplate.

In your situation, I'd do one of the following, both of which involve obtaining a plain-back chuck:

1) Buy a plain-back chuck with a recess ID slightly smaller than the existing backplate. Buy a "Transfer Punch" which fits the bolt holes in your new chuck. Very, very carefully turn down the OD of your backplate to very snugly fit the ID of the chuck recess. Use the transfer punch to mark the centers of the new bolt holes you'll be drilling, reaming, and tapping into the backplate.

2) Buy any plain-back chuck with a recess LARGER than your backplate. Get a piece of steel plate that you can attach to your backplate with either countersunk or counter-bored 7/16 bolts in the existing holes. Countersink or counterbore below flush. Cut the plate round and a bit bigger than the ID of the chuck recess. Face the plate smooth with the power crossfeed.

Now, turn the edge of your "extended backplate," and mount the chuck as above.

Note that idea #2 is a bit of a makeshift.

Neither idea is as good as buying a cast iron backplate blank or making a very secure weldment as described above.

JRR
Wondering if some small iron foundry could make a small profit by pouring some backplate blanks "on speculation."
 
From the original conditions here, this is not possible - but for a variety of reasons, is a nice way to go:

1) purchase a blank backplate.
2) remove the spindle from your machine.
3) find a buddy with a lathe.
4) take the spindle and backplate to the buddy's shop, and use the spindle as a gage to thread the backplate.

Advantages: you meet a buddy with similar hobbies as yours.
 








 
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