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Starting a "garage shop"......good idea ???

rockfish
Believe it or not, I once had my boss tell me that if I were to buy a machine and put in my garage, he would prefer to send me work than pay me to be an employee. It's just the way they feel. They firmly believe that it is FAR cheaper to farm work out than to keep an employee busy.
Yeah, I know a few like that and guess who gets the better deal?

The BOSS...
...does not have to pay overtime
...does not make the Co contribution to Social Security
...does not pay your self employment tax
...does not have to pay for scrap
...does not have a larger electric bill
...does not wearout his machines

YOU...
...get to spend YOUR $$ on machinery
...Get to spend more on electricity
...You pay for scrap
...maybe you make normal rate
...do you think he who knows what that part costs will let you make a lot???

There are a few more in each catagory, but those are a start.

If your lucky the comunity you live in wont find out and close you down.

But that's what the home shop deals with, so...
now what? Get the RIGHT customers and you'l do fine. The wrong ones will kill you.
 
After reading the above posts, it occurred to me, just what are you hoping to offer that is better/cheaper/faster/ or just plain different from the other shops around you? As another poster said, if you subcontract from another shop, you will be beaten down on price and/or have a difficult machining operation, which they did not want. If you go with helping out maintenance guys at other plants, you will have the responsibility of getting the part to work and sourcing strange bearings and other pieces of kit, but as said it can be lucrative. I personaly would try and go with people, who are not mech. engs. because they won't be aware of the cost only their benefit, i.e. making arty bits for an architect to bolt on to the front of a store/office etc. Specialised light holders for theatres. Boxes for computer gizmos. Every TV and radio station will at some time need some bracket bending up or front panel drilled for some special function. I used to subcontract such work and the prices used to make my eyes water, but the rules were that I could not make these thing in my garage and charge the "commercial" rate! Typically, some guys made some modules for us, we asked if they could be cabled up into a large box. Costs:- box £100, fittings(screws etc.) £5, cables (IDC) + connectors £200, morning with hand drill, drilling about 40 holes, plugging the bits together, total costs =£1400!!( $2000 profit).
Frank
 
"Believe it or not, I once had my boss tell me that if I were to buy a machine and put in my garage, he would prefer to send me work than pay me to be an employee. It's just the way they feel. They firmly believe that it is FAR cheaper to farm work out than to keep an employee busy."

Believe me, when the customer comes to you and not them, they will mind.

Bosses have a real problem when you get their share of the money.

TMT
 
Figure out what work you will be doing, production work will need CNC but job and specialty work doesn't, you won't get rich over night. There is alot of work out there that CNC shops turn away.
Farmers need work done, bikers and hottroders always need som kind of special bizzare work.
When I was a kid I worked for a machine shop that only did bushing / sleeve repairs to construction equipment i.e. outrigger arms etc.
Remember CNC does not increase accuracy and a CNC machine cannot think or conceptulize the part I may need for '54 packard but you can. I also know of a manual shop the only works on railroad museum piece restoration.
And yes, get the old lady out in the shop,cleaning,deburring,heavy lifting etc,washing parts, this helps her to build character, list her as an apprentice and you only have to pay her minium wage. :D
Stephanie, you out there?? ;)
;) ;) ;)
 
You asked "it is foolish to start a home shop"
No.
To tinker in the shop doing a few things is just fine, making a little "rat-hole" money to spend on extra's, go for it.
However, when you decide that the shop is to make "real" money then things will change quickly. As stated, you will work two jobs and it will consume all your time. You better be able to handle stress.
As I look back on my own experience I do at times wonder if it all was worth it. I am sucessful,and now select my work. Maybe I should have kicked back,let someone else pay me, got home at 4:30 in the afternoon and continued the hobbies that are now collecting dust, spent more time with the family[which thankfully stayed with me through the whole thing] and went through life that way??
You have to decide, we only get one chance.
 
Good point Andy.

Olddude: My wife ran one job in the shop and she wanted all the money the job paid :confused: If you don't give in to them they will form a union. I'm money ahead keeping her out of the shop. ;)

My advice to everyone is to learn as many things as you possibly can. If you are a machinist, learn about electricity. If you are an electrician, learn about machining. Learn CAD like Solidworks or Autocad. By all means learn CNC.

Next, put it all together.
Machinist+Electrician+CAD+CNC=Everyone will want you.

Here is what it looks like:
www.outbackmachineshop.com
Jim
 
bikers and hottroders always need som kind of special bizzare work
And a lot of them (at least the racers) are running on seriously circumscribed budgets, and the first thing they will try is to have you make the part as "sponsorship".

Hey, it is worth a try. Never worked for me though.


cheers,
Michael
 
rockfish

Why not?? What have you got to lose?

I had a shop for over 20 years, loved it hated it but it was the best thing I ever did.

I think there is a niche for everybody in this industry of ours. Many people think that there is no place for manual machines that they are something from the past and should be melted down for scrap but these are the ones who don't know how to run anything but CNC.

I started with manual then got into CNC milling it was an easy transfer but I did have NC experence before hand. They might look difficult but not really.

My attitude was always If I could carry it in the door I could do it. Try looking up automotive machine shops, motorcycle shops. Small manufacuring co. always need fixtures or tooling.

A few things to think about:

Make sure your wife is on board with this, mine was & even ran my machines to help out.

Homestead your house, it could protect you if something goes bad down the road.

Incorporate as soon as possible, again prtection down the road.

If your Dad is helping with front money put it down in writing for repayment, this will prevent any future arguments with family members.

Use some type of accounting software it might be a PITA to learn but it will save time in the future, might be a good job for the wife!


You have the right attitude just keep your eyes open & listen to your instincts.

Good luck,

Jackmo
 
Wow, lots of good info given here. I started my small manual shop about four years ago. A lot of slow times but have been staying busy now. I live in a small town and a few shops are here but I don't want to compete with any production work and they don't want to do any thing else.
There is lots of repair work out there if you can find it. Somebody else mentioned repairing shafts and these are always going bad. You just have to find a way in the door. I have done work for one company that is running machines made in Germany so when they break down they don't want to wait weeks to have a part imported.
I have a friend that has his own shop and he is so busy, he pretty much keeps me busy with what he doesn't have time for.
So I say go for it.
Michael
 
I see lots of good points in this thread. I know lots of people (including me) are initally restricted by budgets. But if you are going to have a backer...then you better do it right to start with, otherwise they might not get their investment back!

Others have mentioned it as well as you about conversational CNC controls like ProtoTRAKs and such (and not to sound like a sales rep) but you can start cutting parts within a day of learning the basics. And to stay on the conservative side, you're parts will be done 4X faster than if you did it manually (plus the scope of additional complexity and accuracy), and you'll NEVER!! look back at the decision of spending the extra time and money for CNC.

Now all that's the easy stuff, the hard part is finding a customer base to work with and finding out the market you serve.

I'm of the thinking of doing farmed-out work from other local machine shops is about the easiest way to lose your shirt on job. They know how much things cost, and they WILL nickel-and-dime you. You can bet on that with them...so to be wise, I wouldn't count on them as your primary source of income (though the work is there). And what another has said about hobbiests, bikers, racers....this is also a group of "hopefuls" with not much in their wallets and no real concept of what it costs to make basic parts (with a preoccupations for expensive "toys" their wives hate). On top of the fact they can be very fustrating group to work with.

Plus it's a whole different attitude when you do "commerical" work compared to work for "individuals". Parts that make people money, will make you money.

It's not easy to get contacts and your foot in the door at places. But I think if you do know anyone that works for small/large engineering firms, that they can be a source of consistent work and rewarding work.

Plus, do your own accounting and taxes!!! If you're small, there's no point in paying someone more than you would pay yourself to do your books. And it sounds like you're all set on the machining knowledge side of things....so you can focus more on how to run a business (instead of having a double learning curve). Bookeepers are a good excuse for a small business owner to give a shrug as a response to the question "How's your business doing?".
 
I would love to get a Trak lathe and a Prototrak mill........but there's no way we could even get close to being able to afford them without taking out a loan.

We're going to have to start out small and cheap and build it from there.


rockfish
 
Used CNC equipment doesn't have to cost nearly what you'd think to be perfectly functional. I have a Bridgeport Interact 4 that cost under 5k. For that I get manual(ish)/CNC three axis control, conversational programming, graphics, 15x30x6, and electronically variable speed 8hp spindle. In two years its only major repair needed was new washers for the drawbar.

Yes, its a machine from 1986 and yes its not nearly as fast as a new machining center with toolchanger, but an equivalent manual bridgeport of the same age and condition wouldn't have been much cheaper. Even if you used it as just a manual mill with a great DRO, zero backlash and a power drawbar you'd come out ahead.
 
Rockfish,

There are plenty of multi-million dollar
businesses that started out with one guy, one machine and a garage. With out a CNC machine it
will be a tough road, but you can make it, just
don't quit your day job until you can't stand
the 80 hour weeks anymore. You will eventually
need to learn CNC and buy a machine(s) that are CNC. The easiest argument for CNC is the fact
a person can only run one manual machine at a
time, but can run 2 or more CNCs at once.
If you find jobs with the right quanities you
can compete with the CNC shops. You won't be
getting any 2,000 piece orders, but you can
rock on the 5-10s. You have to start somewhere,
keep the overhead low, don't buy anything on
payments, and be prepared for 80-100 hour weeks,
good luck and best wishes,.............Bob
 
Rockfish;
Start up with the funds you have at hand. Sure
it would be nice to have the best equipment for
the investment, but don't over extend yourself.
Guesstimate for a 5 year plan. The work is there,
but it's going to take a lot of door knocking to
get established. When you hang out your "shingle",
it's not advertizing, it just lets clients know
where you are, and remember in this business
you're only as good as your last job. The first
few years are going to have it's ups & downs.
Once your established, and you have a steady
cash flow, and clientel, then up-grade. Till
then take alot of jobs, as bizar as they might
be, for they will be what gets you established.
I started cutting and grinding Shearer blades
for the local scrap yards 120lbs apiece for the
small ones. Then they had me turn and flame harden
the wheels for their Munck Bridge crane, cause
I proved that I could provide the service they
wanted. Later, I made Flagstaff Heads for the
Postal service, which led to 8 jobs fabricating
5 ton air-conditioning supports, for developers
of a couple of shoping centers. They were odd jobs
nobody wanted, but they helped get me established
in the region. Now I'm servicing the other
machine shops in the area, but I never put myself
in dept.
Be carefull.
Jamie
 
Rockfish,

I think your making the right decision to start small with what you have. The great thing about the machine tool business is how broad it is. Different shops do different things. Like others have said, use the knowledge and skills you have at the present time to build your business.

As others have told there stories, I have one to add as well...

I know one shop around here that has only one CNC machine. He started out by doing only repair work with manual equipment. One day while doing a repair job, he found someone who was needing some simple production parts made(~1000/week). He took on the job without having any CNC equipment at the time. He and his wife manually made these parts. He eventually seen where he was going to be doing this job for a while, and it was cutting into his repair jobs. So he made the investment (keyword) to purchase a CNC mill. His wife now simply pushes a button to machine the parts, and he is still doing his repair jobs. Plus, he has the added feature of a CNC in his shop to do other jobs as well.

If your wanting to do CNC work, think of it as something you could do in the future. You may find that you are swamped with jobs that would be more beneficially made on convential equipment.

Good luck in your venture.
 








 
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