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Suggest a facemill for Brother Speedio (BBT30)

TrollTuner

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 11, 2015
Location
SW Missouri
I keep one of this style in my 16k b+ machine since new. Running Iscar full polish inserts.


The 45 cuts a lot freeer than the Korloy 3" The 45 is the main tool now with only a few legacy jobs using the Korloy.

I use a 1.5" Iscar hm390-15 a lot too.. It cuts nice.
 

DavidScott

Titanium
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Washington
Hi-fly-cnc, it sounds like you really want a facemill that is optimized for surface finish on aluminum vs general purpose. Here is a photo showing the difference between 173 ipm and 50% of it. Keep in mind I don't use the special wiper insert to improve the surface finish. I think the texture of the finish is from the cutting edges not being at the exact same height. This photo also shows a problem I have with my current facemill. The bars are 1" wide and the parts are spaced 1/2" apart so with a 2-1/2" facemill the surface finish could be better. My interest in your post is that I am looking for an 80mm facemill for light cuts on 2-1/2" to 3" wide 6061 aluminum parts.

When I say quality of coolant I refer to the coolant itself and not how much is sprayed on the tool.

ASX445-2.jpg
 

hi-fly-cnc

Plastic
Joined
Jun 13, 2022
Thanks @DavidScott - Yep, you have struck the nail on the head there. Only interested in surface finish on Alu (and mostly cosmetic look, not so much optimising for Ra). However, I originally asked if there was a magic tool that could also be used for a slightly wider use case, eg flattening work to get started, inserts for materials other than Alu, etc

So it seems like the multiple inserts not being all perfectly the same height is a chunk of why the tooling marks are visible? So the suggestion for a flycutter (I have been given the suggestion to take all the inserts out of a facemill, bar one), seems to deal with that, caveat program run times.

I have a Korloy 6 flute tool, where every flute has a wiper on the back. This leaves tons of swirls, but is so smooth, even at high chiploads! I guess this gives me an idea of what the wiper will do, more knocking down the surface imperfections, than necessarily hiding tooling marks?

Anyone got any experience of the Big Kaiser FCM? I have a little FCR and it's giving me the best floor finish of any tool I own (including the recently purchased 63mm facemill that started this thread). The FCM only goes up to 50mm, so smaller than I desire, but wondering if anyone had examples of work that it can achieve? The manufacturers catalogue claims 4Ra finish on a FCM and <2Ra on their expensive SpeedFinisher facemill (with the adjustable height inserts). However, the FCM is about £300-400 and the SpeedFinisher looks like it's going to cost more like £3,000 to 4,000 here...

@DavidScott your photo above is really helpful. Thanks. I think I desire to have the option to get better finish than you show with the 50% feed version. I hear what you say about adding a wiper, and further dropping feed rates, etc. So more improvements are possible. However, overall I guess this points towards me "desiring" the Sandvik Century/Big-K, etc vs the ASX445. Big price upgrade though...
 

bosmos_j

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Anyone got any experience of the Big Kaiser FCM?

I have a couple. They are great, but I don't think they are meant for perfect mirror finish. Depends how you define "mirror", should be super nice Ra. I have a WSX445 and both it and the FCMs leave very good finish. I didn't even know about wipers until this thread! Apparently you can get them for the WSX445 and the ASX445. The later has carbide insert. The upside of the WSX is 8 cutting edges per insert. I change/rotate inserts every few months when the finish starts to slack. You might look into tumbling (walnut shells and the like).
 

DavidScott

Titanium
Joined
Jul 11, 2012
Location
Washington
No it's not a joke. Please explain why you think it would be a joke. Please be specific.
Limited feedrate due to one cutting tip = long cycle time :(.

Wiper grinds on your inserts really help keep the surface smooth at higher feeds. Some end mills even have them on the face to improve the surface finish of pockets.
 

hi-fly-cnc

Plastic
Joined
Jun 13, 2022
So I may have solved my problem. Based on the advice here I was googling and amazon.co.uk of all places popped up (my local version). On there was the imperial sized version (19.05mm - 3/4" arbour) of the 63mm Century! For under around $100...?!!!

Looking closer they had the metric 80mm, also for around the same price... Doing some searching by price I also found an RA210 51mm in imperial sizes

IMG20221014185232.jpg


I can't quite work out what happened there. The seller appeared to be Sandvik themselves, ie they have a huge catalogue of stuff on Amazon, all under their own "seller" name, mostly on 4-5 weeks shipping via the USA. Then just these couple of items on "next day, 1 left"...

The boxes are a touch tatty, but nothing that screams return (more like shipping damage). However, the RA210 has no instructions in the box, and it's also missing the arbour screw... Presuming these can be purchased separately though??

The 80mm had a sticker over the balancing date info, and under it were details of a completely different product (so just random instructions put inside). The 63mm box contained some instructions with a balancing date sticker of 2016?

IMG20221014190141.jpg

Thoughts? Any reason not to call this the steal of the century? My best guess is that this is a return and for whatever reason, Amazon's internal process is to discount it rather than return it back to the USA warehouse? The actual items don't show any visible signs of use.

Not actually sure what the RA210 is even for? High feed mill?

Can anyone help me specify the best inserts for the R?-590 mills for use with aluminium please? Looking for mirror finish and ideally a matching wiper insert. Prefer a small edge radius. (The Century website is confusing - Note: I possibly need to order and wait weeks for an international shipment, with no easy way to return the wrong item - thanks if anyone can help specify the correct inserts)
 

BROTHERFRANK

Stainless
Joined
Dec 20, 2013
Location
SoCal
The Century cutters are great. I used to run a 2.5" at the shows with the carbide inserts at about .200" doc and 150 IPM feed. The chips would slam right into the window where people would put their face up to watch. More than one jumped back not expecting the blizzard of chips hitting the window right in front of their face! Great finishes. I like the adjustable pockets and the option to run the polished carbide or pcd inserts. I like how they have the serrated inserts and pockets for high speed stability too. Unless money is no object, I think you will be happy with the polished inserts and with the adjustable pockets you can probably achieve the finish you are looking for. Tried to get insert info but their website doesn't break down the nomenclature very well. I think I have a hard copy of their catalog I can look at on Monday. Those bodies do look like the deal of the 'Century'!
 
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JasHarvey

Plastic
Joined
Aug 13, 2022
Limited feedrate due to one cutting tip = long cycle time :(.

Wiper grinds on your inserts really help keep the surface smooth at higher feeds. Some end mills even have them on the face to improve the surface finish of pockets.
Granted you can't argue with the math but he's talking about taking fine finishing cuts on aluminum. That means going balls to the wall. I'm not sure how fast you want to go, but if you fly-cut a 6" long bar at 10,000 RPM with a chip load of .003 per revolution, that cut takes about 20 seconds with lead on and lead off. The finish will be "amazing" using a cutter with about a .05 tip radius. Single flute flycutters are good finishing tools when used on aluminum and other soft materials.
 

Philabuster

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Location
Tempe, AZ
Granted you can't argue with the math but he's talking about taking fine finishing cuts on aluminum. That means going balls to the wall. I'm not sure how fast you want to go, but if you fly-cut a 6" long bar at 10,000 RPM with a chip load of .003 per revolution, that cut takes about 20 seconds with lead on and lead off. The finish will be "amazing" using a cutter with about a .05 tip radius. Single flute flycutters are good finishing tools when used on aluminum and other soft materials.

For aluminum a rigid single flute fly cutter should work well. Use a HSS or cobalt cutter with a relatively large end radius (.03 - .05) and a relatively large relief angle. Hone the edge with a fine diamond pad and you should be good to go. Won't last for steel though. I don't particularly like the shallow tool angle of a standard off the shelf fly cutter. I prefer the tool to be held at about a 45 degree angle for added rigidity. You may have to make one.
WOW! Sounds Good! :drool5:

Let me get this straight, you want to spin an imbalanced flycutter up to 10,000 RPM holding a HSS tool bit and at ~3" in diameter, run the HSS tool at ~7,800 SFM in aluminum?

Any takers? :popcorn:
 

JasHarvey

Plastic
Joined
Aug 13, 2022
WOW! Sounds Good! :drool5:

Let me get this straight, you want to spin an imbalanced flycutter up to 10,000 RPM holding a HSS tool bit and at ~3" in diameter, run the HSS tool at ~7,800 SFM in aluminum?

Any takers? :popcorn:
Yea me. I'll make a little movie file tomorrow and show you what I'm talking about. Fly cutters don't necessarily need to be too imbalanced such as the one I described above. I've also attached a crappy photo of one I made and use.
 

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LOTT

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 28, 2016
@JasHarvey, are you actually using homemade fly cutters in a commercial setting? As a full time machinist in someone else's shop?

I see that picture is of a Bridgeport, and would have thought the only place flycutters are used is as a project you can make and "use" in a tech school setting.
 

JasHarvey

Plastic
Joined
Aug 13, 2022
You tryna tell me you don't play Russian roulette with a hardened piece of steel that'll have an exit velocity of mach jesus? :)
You tryna tell me you don't play Russian roulette with a hardened piece of steel that'll have an exit velocity of mach jesus? :)
OK boys, I think this is about all I can do to rest my case. You've seen it with your own eyes now so further comments from the deniers should be real interesting. The finish isn't exactly a mirror finish but it's probably good enough for the girls we go out with. Enjoy.
 

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JasHarvey

Plastic
Joined
Aug 13, 2022
@JasHarvey, are you actually using homemade fly cutters in a commercial setting? As a full time machinist in someone else's shop?

I see that picture is of a Bridgeport, and would have thought the only place flycutters are used is as a project you can make and "use" in a tech school setting.
Yea Lott, I use them in a commercial setting. We have lots of butchers in our shop and I'm not one of them.
 

Philabuster

Diamond
Joined
Jul 12, 2006
Location
Tempe, AZ
Please educate Brother on the proper use of tooling because they are obviously doing it wrong spinning a 4" cutter at 16K RPM going 400 IPM (2:56 in video) when they can be saving their customers money with HSS going 20 IPM.
 

JasHarvey

Plastic
Joined
Aug 13, 2022
Please educate Brother on the proper use of tooling because they are obviously doing it wrong spinning a 4" cutter at 16K RPM going 400 IPM (2:56 in video) when they can be saving their customers money with HSS going 20 IPM.
I'll bet I could cut that cycle time in half.
 

Wsurfer

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Location
Austin Texas
OK boys, I think this is about all I can do to rest my case. You've seen it with your own eyes now so further comments from the deniers should be real interesting. The finish isn't exactly a mirror finish but it's probably good enough for the girls we go out with. Enjoy.
No offense, but I was expecting something stellar. I'm getting a 6ra finish using a ripper roughing face mill. 2" dia, 4 insert, 10k rpm, 120IPM, .005" deep finish pass.
 

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