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Suggestions for BT30 Dual Contact Tool Holders for a Brother Speedio S700Xd1

Plus if you don't use a torque wrench and your tool moves you are left wondering if it was because you pushed it too hard or didn't use enough force on the nut. Not knowing which means you don't know what the proper fix is moving forward. It took me 20 years to finally try using a torque wrench even though I had them on hand. Once I started using one I absolutely did not stop and started using it on a lot more things due to the massive reduction in variables it enables, which is so important in reducing problems when doing production as fast as possible. I am a one man shop and found the benefit to be this big, think of a shop full of people with varying degrees of what they consider tight?
 
From my recent thread struggling with surface finish issues, I learned the following about Maritool SK collets. I had always torqued them fairly lightly, because I had read they were easy to over tighten. I was getting approximately 20-25 parts from one endmill with an ER. The best I got initially switching to SK was 22, and that was with under to max of .0001” runout.

What I found, and gkoenig was emphasizing here, was that the torque is apparently more important. I found maritools MAX torque limit for the SK and torqued it there. This brought my runout from .0001-.0002” up to .0003-.0004”.

However my tool life reached an average of 30 parts per tool.

To jump on the dog pile, nearly all my tooling is Maritool, it had better run out and was 1/2-1/3 the price of the Lyndex I bought with my Brother.
 
I found maritools MAX torque limit for the SK and torqued it there. This brought my runout from .0001-.0002” up to .0003-.0004”.

However my tool life reached an average of 30 parts per tool.

There is no way in hell I would have predicted that outcome.

When you were measuring runout before (at the lower torque level), did you put a lateral load on the tool to see if it was loose? Like the spring pressure from the collet was centering it, but not rigidly? That is the only scenario I can think of where a tool with 0.0004" runout would outperform a tool with 0.0001" runout.
 
2-4 microns of runout on an SK collet?! Wow!

I don't own any SK, but I'm struggling to get ER collets under 5-25 microns of runout! Even with a bit of tapping around to centre them! (Note that's measuring at the flutes of the tool itself)

If you keep running that job, I would love to know what the tool life looked like with a "premium holder", so hydraulic, shrink, regofix, etc? Would it increase by a noticeable amount? (Every sales guy has anecdotes, but I'm curious what "boots on the ground" see?).

In the uk you can buy rebranded YG-1 BT40 hydraulic holders (sold as Europatool) for sub £100 (so sub $130 USD). They don't seem to do BT30 versions though :-( (In the USA I see that Haas is selling YG-1 stuff under their own brand, not sure if they also offer the tool holders?)
 
2-4 microns of runout on an SK collet?! Wow!

I don't own any SK, but I'm struggling to get ER collets under 5-25 microns of runout! Even with a bit of tapping around to centre them! (Note that's measuring at the flutes of the tool itself)

If you keep running that job, I would love to know what the tool life looked like with a "premium holder", so hydraulic, shrink, regofix, etc? Would it increase by a noticeable amount? (Every sales guy has anecdotes, but I'm curious what "boots on the ground" see?).

In the uk you can buy rebranded YG-1 BT40 hydraulic holders (sold as Europatool) for sub £100 (so sub $130 USD). They don't seem to do BT30 versions though :-( (In the USA I see that Haas is selling YG-1 stuff under their own brand, not sure if they also offer the tool holders?)
Haas is doing toolholders and I heard they are YG-1 made, but I can't confirm that.
 
2-4 microns of runout on an SK collet?! Wow!

I don't own any SK, but I'm struggling to get ER collets under 5-25 microns of runout! Even with a bit of tapping around to centre them! (Note that's measuring at the flutes of the tool itself)

If you keep running that job, I would love to know what the tool life looked like with a "premium holder", so hydraulic, shrink, regofix, etc? Would it increase by a noticeable amount? (Every sales guy has anecdotes, but I'm curious what "boots on the ground" see?).

In the uk you can buy rebranded YG-1 BT40 hydraulic holders (sold as Europatool) for sub £100 (so sub $130 USD). They don't seem to do BT30 versions though :-( (In the USA I see that Haas is selling YG-1 stuff under their own brand, not sure if they also offer the tool holders?)
You gotta find the companies that make more than one style and ask them which is better for X situation, even if it's not the brand you ultimately want to use. That's the only time I feel like any "testing" info I get from tooling vendors is going to be true. Either way they are the winner and the loser so there's not reason for them to pad the stats.
 
There is no way in hell I would have predicted that outcome.

When you were measuring runout before (at the lower torque level), did you put a lateral load on the tool to see if it was loose? Like the spring pressure from the collet was centering it, but not rigidly? That is the only scenario I can think of where a tool with 0.0004" runout would outperform a tool with 0.0001" runout.
The cutters definitely were not loose, I ran 3 or 4 tools tightening to my “normal” SK tighteness, which isn’t very scientific, but how I’ve run them for 5 years now. I then ran another 2-3 tools tightened to the max listed on maritools website.

I fortunately, or unfortunately, got asked to quote another batch of these parts. I’m already significantly over their target price (a topic for another thread) but they have everything pretty dialed in (oem making these for 40 some years) at this point I feel like it’s a challenge that needs conquering. I’m definitely considering taking the “loss” and buying a Maritool hydraulic to see how it effects tool life. It might pay for itself in saved tooling this next job. Then I can start picking away at improvements and possibly turn this work into good running profitable work.
 
2-4 microns of runout on an SK collet?! Wow!

I don't own any SK, but I'm struggling to get ER collets under 5-25 microns of runout! Even with a bit of tapping around to centre them! (Note that's measuring at the flutes of the tool itself)

If you keep running that job, I would love to know what the tool life looked like with a "premium holder", so hydraulic, shrink, regofix, etc? Would it increase by a noticeable amount? (Every sales guy has anecdotes, but I'm curious what "boots on the ground" see?).

In the uk you can buy rebranded YG-1 BT40 hydraulic holders (sold as Europatool) for sub £100 (so sub $130 USD). They don't seem to do BT30 versions though :-( (In the USA I see that Haas is selling YG-1 stuff under their own brand, not sure if they also offer the tool holders?)
One tenth would be 2 1/2 micron if my memory serves. So 2 tenths runout would be around 5 micron. Most of my Maritool ER’s with good quality collets, are average 3 to 5 tenths. I lucked out there was a surplus place north of me that sold NOS ER collets for the same price regardless of who made them. So I have a lot of Rego-Fix and Lyndex, and a few others that I would pick out. I have found collet manufacture definitely matters. A salesman told me once all the ER collets in the world are made at one of two facilities, that might be true, but there are definitely different qualities!

As mentioned above, I definitely am considering a hydraulic if I get this next job.
 
I found maritools MAX torque limit for the SK and torqued it there.

What torque wrench are you using? I just got a new one from Mari and the instructions show you need to do some math for the extensions. like any of them. Just dialing it up will give you about 10% more than you asked for. I'm wondering if you're overshooting slightly.
 
I forget the brand name off hand, but a quality US one.

I have the old Maritool holders before he went "proprietary", and can use sockets as long as the tool length fit. So there is no added length to the torque arm altering the numbers.
 
I forget the brand name off hand, but a quality US one.

I have the old Maritool holders before he went "proprietary", and can use sockets as long as the tool length fit. So there is no added length to the torque arm altering the numbers.
I think he's referring to the/any added offset, from the center of the nut to any adapter used, where the socket or driver attaches to the adapter.
 
yup, but a torque wrench with just a square drive at the end shouldn't have this. Maritool told me their "regular" SK16s will be going away eventually and only be offering the high torque version.
 

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yup, but a torque wrench with just a square drive at the end shouldn't have this. Maritool told me their "regular" SK16s will be going away eventually and only be offering the high torque version.

Pedantic correction. Square end spanners won't need this correction IFF you use them at 90 degrees to the applied force. If you have them inline (as per the diagram where the socket inserts into the end of the arm), then you also need to apply the length correction factor
 
You lost me on that one. I'm saying no math is required for a torque wrench that doesn't have an interchangeable head. It would make sense that the interchangeable type are calibrated with a standard attachment on the end (1/2 drive or so), but it's not clear on the one I have that it has been.
 
Lots of good info in here. 95% of what I machine is Titanium. The instant I started using Rego-Fix on my S500, I saw improved surface finishes, 2x tool life, and a quieter machine. I still have several holders from other brands but I am investing into Rego-fix MicRun. I also use their Torque wrench and do not mess around with torque specs. Roughing and finishing in titanium with the same holders and not an issue.
 
At $400-$500 a pop, I’m not sure how you justify it, other than you must have found a niche product line with high margins. Congrats!
 








 
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