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Surface Grinder purchase help

IWUP

Aluminum
Joined
Feb 1, 2017
Hi,
I am considering adding a surface grinder to my shop. There's a seller about an hour a way that has a number different make/models. I don't have any knowledge on what make/model is better than another.
My question is out of these options which should I consider assuming equal condition? Of the top choices what should I check for condition/operability?
  • Chevalier FSG-618M 2hp, auto lube, ball bearing ways, 1/2 x 8 wheel, $3,000
  • Kent MKGS-200 6x12 year:1984, $2,250
  • Covel 6x12 style no. 7A, $1,650
  • Boyar-Schultz 6x12 deluxe, Walker perm magnet chuck, $2,250
  • KO Lee 6x12 S714, 1 hp, Walker Ceramax chuck, $2,200
  • Sanford model MG 5x10, electromagnetic chuck. 1/2 hp, 110 volt, $1,850
  • Reid 6x18 model 1001, $2,250
  • Abrasive 6x18, roller ways, manual lube, coolant, $2,500
  • Brown and Sharpe Model 2L 6x18, 2 axis autofeed, $3,250
  • Harig super 618, perm magnet chuck, $2,700
Thanks for any help
Edit: My shop is single phase power only so for the 3 phase machines I'd get a VFD to run them.
 
A shame you did not post your location.

Some may say the Boyer and the Sandford are lesser machines but in good condition they are Ok to good..
trying under power is a plus to know the spindle is good.
You can carry a precision parallel to shim flat on the chuck in the area least used and run a tenth indicator across to know long and cross are flat (but take care because the mag will bend the paralell /dont use tha mag)...and just spining a precision paralell on the unused area of a chuck to see that the last chick grinding made a flat chuck, spin it on your surface plate to know how it should feel..
Oil scraped ways can be rescraped / ball and roller ways are expensive the rebuild.
Sanford and Abrasive may be hard to find parts.
Hydraulic feeds can be a bugger to repair.
*Condition is king. I like a 6-18 +.
A not tried machind can be a basket case.
Guys will recommend machines based on their experiance but still condition is king.
A good condition machine might be sold, a junk machine you may not be able to give away.
 
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I have a Kent of about the same year. Decent machine. If you do a lot of grinding you will really want a powered table, especially long blocks.
I really like the elevation control in front vs on top of the column. I put on a folding handle. I thought about electrically powering the table, but I don't use it enough, maybe 20 times a year.

I don't recall the source, but with ball ways the table should be removed for transport. The head should also be blocked up.

The ballway type move very easy. So much so, that do not take heavy cuts on the climb direction.

I prefer a pemanent magnet if not using coolant. The electro mags will heat up the part and magnet without it.

I ran a much larger B &S Micromaster for years, Very good machine, but a lot of hydraulics and should be warmed up first.

Dave
 
I'm a Harig guy.

However - the only other [hand feed] grinder that I have ran was an old Boyer Schultz (I think). (25-30 yrs ago)
The B/S (or whatever it was) had a rack/pinion gear-set and the lash would "thunk"at the end of travel.

The last thing that I want on my grinder is anything that "thunks"!

Harig's are cable feed and have zero lash.
IDK which others are so equipped, but that would be a mandatory feature for any grinder that I would be looking to buy!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I'm a Harig guy.

Harig's are cable feed and have zero lash.
IDK which others are so equipped, but that would be a mandatory feature for any grinder that I would be looking to buy!


----------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Kent ballway machines are cable drive as well, at least our is.
 
The only two on your list I have much time on is the Harig and the Boyar.
Manual Harigs come in cable or the optional rack and pinion table drive. Not all of them are cable. The cable does wear out and slip.
Biggest failures in Harigs are the oil pumps but for $100 or so you can stick something in is place.

The Boyar I used was well worn. The Harigs use vee and flat for the in/out. The Boyar I ran used box and flat.
Since the box worn the table would kick or twist when moving in or out which made side wheeling a slot interesting.

Not on your list but I have some manual B&S 618 micromasters.
The thing you notice first on this machine is that you have to turn the handwheel many more turns to cover the length of the part.
When flat grinding steel your arm gets tired fast. Is a more accurate machine no doubt but for quick and dirty my people go to the Harig.

I do hear good things from others about Reids and Kents. Had a Reid for six months. I did not like it so much. It nice grinder but I did not like so I sold it.

Roller and ball ways. Much less effort. Since most of my grinding is creep feed plunge they are a little harder to control.
They move too easy. As said if moving a ball or roller it is best to jack the table and block it so that you do not put dents in the ways when crossing potholes in the road.

Some say chuck included. That is a big plus. These are not cheap.
Only one lists a electromatic chuck but.. this not a great machine.

Not much help here for sure.
In the words of Elinore "you'll know no more than you did before."

I'd go visit.
No asking for the stupid grind test over 5 blocks or whatever or the silly things people do with a indicator when looking. This is rock solid stupid.
Which is comfortable? My grinding on such machines is likely different than what you want to do.
 
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Thanks for everyone's input, I'm certainly smarter now than before I posted.
I'll likely take the drive next week to check them out.
 
I bought a new cable for my Harig through Production Tool prolly 30 yrs ago, and not replaced it since.
Not an expensive item.

Not sure who deals in Harig these days as that has likely followed "Bridgeport"?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I've forgotten how to live without a variable setting electromagnetic chuck. That would sway my decision.

BTW - I have a 10 or 12-18 Boyer Schultz of unknown vintage. Guessing 20-30 years old or more. It has never struck me as being a well designed and constructed machine.
 
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I've forgotten how to live without a variable setting electromagnetic chuck. That would sway my decision.

BTW - I have a 10 or 12-18 Boyer Schultz of unknown vintage. Guessing 20-30 years old or more. It has never struck me as being a well designed and constructed machine.

Has B/S made any grinders in the last 50 years? 60?

Keep in mind - 50 yrs was 1974, which was .. like ... just the other day eh?
At least in non-CNC machine tool years anyhow...


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Not on your list but I have some manual B&S 618 micromasters.
The thing you notice first on this machine is that you have to turn the handwheel many more turns to cover the length of the part.
When flat grinding steel your arm gets tired fast. Is a more accurate machine no doubt but for quick and dirty my people go to the Harig.
Browne and Sharp made a 6x18 ... or 6x12 ? that had a lever and a strap instead of a handwheel and cable. Even nicer.

Now you have something else to look for :)
 
I bought a new cable for my Harig through Production Tool prolly 30 yrs ago, and not replaced it since.
Not an expensive item.

Not sure who deals in Harig these days as that has likely followed "Bridgeport"?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Maybe Tru Tech owns it now. (Mt. Clemens, MI)
Buying so many machines for their centerless machine (Improved version of Dedtru) that they bought the company from Bport/Textron I think. This machine has sold well.
In a small footprint grinder I still like these the best but I'm biased since started out on one and have owned a few. (is a production line of ten a few?)
Should I add if you buy one you can take the machine off the base and fit it all in a mini-van with no problem.
Turckite on the table ways is a plus for me in a manual. I do not so much like the ball way version.
My cables went more like 2-3 years of 24/7 operation. No big deal, so easy to replace ... just do not get the wrap backwards.
People love the machines they know....right?
The OP wants to add a grinder. Not saying what or super tolerances needed.
The Harig 6x12 and 6x18 are workhorses for sure. Downsides are few.
So yes to all. Put me in the line of Harig grinder likes. Small footprint and works well.
Not a Dooall or a Micromaster but gets the job done well and a so easy to move machine when you want to rearrange the furniture.
Others on the list good machines also.

Many options ....So how to look at and evaluate ????
We are looking at 2-3 large. What is the price for new?

I do not grind steel if I can help it. (hate that stuff, carbide, ceramics,CBN, PCD I love) ....So I know shit in this world and should not talk.
We do have to grind toolholder shanks and stuff like that that.
 
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I bought a new cable for my Harig through Production Tool prolly 30 yrs ago, and not replaced it since.
Not an expensive item.

Not sure who deals in Harig these days as that has likely followed "Bridgeport"?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
Ox,

A long time former Harig employee named Jim Seyller( JDS Technical Support ) has spare parts. He's in the Chicago area. I ordered a few items ( including a new cable ) from him last year to get a new to me Super 612 back up and running. It's been a great little grinder.
 
I have been seeing some incredible deals on Facebook Marketplace lately, REALLY wished that I needed a surface grinder, but I don't anymore. If you can find one, I would opt for a Mitsui or an Okamoto, have owned and used both and you should not be diasappointed. They are both ball way, and like said above, do not move without removing the balls. A Gardner with roller ways is nice too, but hard to find. I have had Harigs also, watch out for the oil pumps as noted above. Had a nice Covel that was inexpensive but did a good job. I personally would stay away from anything that I could not run. If you buy one what does not have cable drive for the table, contact me, I have retrofitted many and may still have the cable and fittings around for it.
 
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Based on the responses I've kind of narrowed it down to these links.
 
Of the above, my choice would definitely be the Abrasive. US made and the downfeed handle is where it's supposed to be. If you don't mind a bit of a drive, here is one priced at about the cost of the wheel guard.....https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/968868804247215/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_general&referral_story_type=general&tracking=%7B%22qid%22%3A%22-2779852501426022691%22%2C%22mf_story_key%22%3A%228539652184567098248%22%2C%22commerce_rank_obj%22%3A%22%7B%5C%22target_id%5C%22%3A8539652184567098248%2C%5C%22target_type%5C%22%3A6%2C%5C%22primary_position%5C%22%3A2%2C%5C%22ranking_signature%5C%22%3A6966397617667509312%2C%5C%22commerce_channel%5C%22%3A501%2C%5C%22value%5C%22%3A5.6353262737319e-5%2C%5C%22upsell_type%5C%22%3A3516%2C%5C%22candidate_retrieval_source_map%5C%22%3A%7B%5C%227263615043694187%5C%22%3A801%2C%5C%229234889699885542%5C%22%3A801%2C%5C%227009073372469861%5C%22%3A3501%2C%5C%226880289722031148%5C%22%3A801%2C%5C%226907246842702354%5C%22%3A3501%2C%5C%227285703278146839%5C%22%3A801%7D%2C%5C%22grouping_info%5C%22%3Anull%7D%22%2C%22lightning_feed_qid%22%3A%22-2779852844869190876%22%2C%22lightning_feed_ranking_signature%22%3A%222491549311385769474%22%2C%22ftmd_400706%22%3A%22111112l%22%7D
 








 
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