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Surface Grinder purchase help

Of the above, my choice would definitely be the Abrasive. US made and the downfeed handle is where it's supposed to be. If you don't mind a bit of a drive, here is one priced at about the cost of the wheel guard.....https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/968868804247215/?ref=browse_tab&referral_code=marketplace_general&referral_story_type=general&tracking=%7B%22qid%22%3A%22-2779852501426022691%22%2C%22mf_story_key%22%3A%228539652184567098248%22%2C%22commerce_rank_obj%22%3A%22%7B%5C%22target_id%5C%22%3A8539652184567098248%2C%5C%22target_type%5C%22%3A6%2C%5C%22primary_position%5C%22%3A2%2C%5C%22ranking_signature%5C%22%3A6966397617667509312%2C%5C%22commerce_channel%5C%22%3A501%2C%5C%22value%5C%22%3A5.6353262737319e-5%2C%5C%22upsell_type%5C%22%3A3516%2C%5C%22candidate_retrieval_source_map%5C%22%3A%7B%5C%227263615043694187%5C%22%3A801%2C%5C%229234889699885542%5C%22%3A801%2C%5C%227009073372469861%5C%22%3A3501%2C%5C%226880289722031148%5C%22%3A801%2C%5C%226907246842702354%5C%22%3A3501%2C%5C%227285703278146839%5C%22%3A801%7D%2C%5C%22grouping_info%5C%22%3Anull%7D%22%2C%22lightning_feed_qid%22%3A%22-2779852844869190876%22%2C%22lightning_feed_ranking_signature%22%3A%222491549311385769474%22%2C%22ftmd_400706%22%3A%22111112l%22%7D
I'm leaning towards the Abrasive as well
Michigan is a hike for me!
 
I havn't run a modern Abrasive SG but have used older ones and they were top quality. Tooted: CONDITION: Good / Machine can be demonstrated under power. It is an oder machine
The low down hand wheel location is a pluse for me having it near the direction one is looking at the cross and the part.
Under power for a test grind / buying from a machine flipper is taking a huge chance.
I would also consider the Chevalier Tooted excelant and because of the 2 hp motor. and much newer
I suspect it has a 1 1/ 4" mount and a single thread flange nut..so a 7" wheel can also be used, 7 inchers are easier to buy so to have parting wheel and odd wheels. and a simple wheel mount so extra mounts are easy to find. . I would want to abe able to use 7" wheels.
Kents and harigs are good/Ok...one in top shape will grind well.
The straight edge test to know the machine ground the chuck flat is an Ok test / and take a grind a surface finish test is good.
The run an indicatio in the chuck and the five piece test are foolish.

If you test a paralell on your surface plate, and then test it on a chuck that is a pretty good/ok test. place it on the chuck side close to operator's position. spindle should sound good. A lot of free play in cross handle can mean high hours but thats not a big deal.
Taking off the table for ball and roller travel is common..I like to put the balls or rollers back in the same order / side. Egg cartons are good for balls.
Getting a machine home I like to add a trrip if masking tape at the rear parting line to keep grits out of the works. An Air hose that can get close to a grinder, blowing other machines or blowing the bench, tools or the floor can destroy a grinder.
Good to have:
Bargain set of 123 blocks, a V block with clamp , angle plate, two 6" lite duty C clamps, a bar holding a diamond at about 15* angle..
If you are not a grinder hand you might find one to go along. on the search.
 
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While I've not run them, I've heard good about Chevalier and Kent, also Mits Okomoto and Harig. Didn't like the Reid I ran or Abrasive. The Boyar I tried at another shop seemed awful light and fragile despite being new, while the Parker-Majestics were superb- thought enough of them I have two.
Whichever you settle on, get to know Sopko up in Cleveland, they'll be able to help with anything you may need.
 
Oh, with a very old surface grinder one might try the the down hand wheel to drop the wheel on a wood block and with turning down slowley to test the free travel ..getting past a half turn the down nut is pertty wore out.
That usuall does not harm accuracy but may suggest a repair to the down nut is getting close.
I would ask for a $300 or + discount finding that .

RE: Another thing to check on an older machine, If way worn a vertical feed nut can skip half a thread and the lock up. Once locked it is a bugger to get it apart for a repair.
 
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Based on the responses I've kind of narrowed it down to these links.
I looked it up (check on memory cells to see if they went awol) ... Abrasive was Landis. Don't know if it was always them or they bought someone but Landis cylindricals are nice. Been listed two months, I bet he'd take an offer.

Of course you want to look, too, but .... "Rochester, can you get me a ticket to upstate New York ?"

Yassuh Mister Benny :D
 
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FYI... The Harig 612 I have powers a 115V light and coolant pump from the panel... Im unsure how suitable a VFD might be.

This can be gotten around readily enough. I run my B&S from a pair of VFDs, one for the spindle motor and one for the hydraulic motor and coolant pump. I run the aux electronics from a 120VAC wall plug. Unless he doesn't know electrical very well; but maybe knows someone who does?
 
Good to wrap it tight for transport because road grit gets in, and parts fall off.
Lower the wheel and set it on a wood block to take the bouncing off the verticle feed nut. Take some zip lock bags and a tool box for parts. A roll of plastic wrap and some duck tape for the wrap..and the you mught tarp wrap it.
A bump stop on your trailer.. and tie downs that don't cross any sharp edges.

Dont use clothes line but good nylon rope / or decent straps.
As I said package balls / rollers so they go to back the same place / same order.

I tell guys to drive like you have a hot coffee setting on the dash so no sudden moves..Good to have a navagator along forthe trip.
A lot of macines get tipped over loading ,unloading and moving around.

A lift gate will drop too fast if weight is near limit, so you open the down valve as slow as you can at the down start

Dont re grind the chuck if you are not experianced at that..but come back to ask queation about doing that,

Replace the chuck with lightly with honing the set pad and chuck bottom with a new big flat stone. Very clean and a coat of vasoline is not bad for chuck mounting. Toghten hold downs with a swing of you arm , not a shoulder pull and be sure the your hold downs dont ride the edge of your chuck.

You should have one of these stones. and use it for flat not edges or kinife sharpening. use small stones for edging and burrs, * $26 is such a great sale price that I just bought another .

 
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This can be gotten around readily enough. I run my B&S from a pair of VFDs, one for the spindle motor and one for the hydraulic motor and coolant pump. I run the aux electronics from a 120VAC wall plug. Unless he doesn't know electrical very well; but maybe knows someone who does?
The electrical side is no problem
 
Another thing to watch on the Harig oil pump is that some are 120V AC and some are 240V AC( single phase ). My Super 612 is 3P 240V for the spindle and dust collection, and 1P 240V for the oil pump.
 
I ended up buying the Chevalier FSG-618 in Rochester. Couldn't have been a worst day to pick it up, cold, snowy, salt. I took the thruway out but decided to take the back roads home as I didn't want to be doing 65mph with the machine on my trailer. I took some suggestions here about supporting the table so I stuck wood door shims under each corner and also put a wood block between the head and chuck to hold it place. The table uses a cogged belt and at the time I didn't know what was needed to remove the table so I went the above route with success. The owner had a forklift to load the machine and I used my 2 post car lift to lift it and drive the trailer out from underneath. I pulled the table off to check things over and while it was off I gave a burgandy paint a touch up including the stripe around the base. I only have single phase in my shop so I removed the electrical enclosure. I found a Hoffman box on eBay, bought a VFD and some parts from McMaster to make a new electrical box that included operating the oil pump and work light. I programmed a 40 sec accel/decel. I used it on a job right after it was done and the customer was pleased.
Some pics
 

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Based on the responses I've kind of narrowed it down to these links.
Of those the Chevalier would be my choice "Runs Perfect" a good note (if true).
Next the Abrasive as good perhaps better, but condition would need be perfect.
But: !/2 x 8" wheel? you should have a 3/4 wide wheel mount so you can use a recess wheel, often needed to go past your wheel mount facwe to make a deep step.
 
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Taking off the chuck off it should be ground, but don’t do that right away if you are not experienced in grinding. *Many /most new to grinding will burn the first chuck they grind. . *let me know what wheel you have for chuck grinding..
Chuck hold downs at less than 20 lbs.
Buy a brand-new good size hone and keep it only for the chuck (and the like).
Darn , stone is back to $50. I just bought one for $26.
 
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Of those the Chevalier would be my choice "Runs Perfect" a good note (if true).
Next the Abrasive as good perhaps better, but condition would need be perfect.
But: !/2 x 8" wheel? you should have a 3/4 wide wheel mount so you can use a recess wheel, often needed to go past your wheel mount facwe to make a deep step.
The owner also owns a large machining business that employs 150 people, the shop the machine was in was his play shop which was spotless and full of equipment that looked new. He sold this machine to buy the same brand but bigger.
Taking off the chuck off it should be ground, but don’t do that right away if you are not experienced in grinding. *Many /most new to grinding will burn the first chuck they grind. . *let me know what wheel you have for chuck geinding..
Chuck hold downs at less than 20 lbs.
Buy a brand-new good size hone and keep it only for the chuck (and the like).
Darn , stone is back to $50. I just bought one for $26.
Can you elaborate on the best practice on grinding the chuck or point me to a tutorial?
Also thanks for the torque values. The manual doesn't say and the chuck manufacturer tech support I contacted at Suburban Tool in Michigan didn't have one.
 
Torque values are from Walker Magnetic Chucks. A world leader in chucks.
I think they said !9 on the right and 12 on the left. I just use <20 for both.

Good to get a steel plate 8 x 10 x ½ to 5/8” to use for a practice task, this makes a great mini surface plate for checking parts. Adding a way to mount an indicator and a bar later. Grinding one big part will give some confidence for chuck grinding. Later grind the sides to .0002 square.

I have been using less than 20 for many years. I just swing my arm at the elbow and call that Good. The hold down should not rest on the edge but rest toward/close to the chuck body.
. Chuck grinding wheel, I like a 46 K to L open wheel. Surface finish is not important but dead flat. is. Some grinder hands use a courser wheel. Aluminum Oxide wheels that are open (showing space between grits.) white and pink AO wheels are cooler grinding. X brown and gray wheels tend to grind hot but are often great for production jobs. Ceramic wheels are good but can be expensive.
Good that a grinder has been used a bit after a teardown and moving before grinding the chuck.
Run the wheel and travel (cross, long and down) for a time to warm up the machine.
Make the wheel plenty tight and dress with a rapid .001 dress, with a sharp diamond facet
Touch off. With perhaps rubbing a piece of printer copy paper and cross the whole chuck about .003 or .005 high to be sure you won’t crash hard.
Come down .0005 per till you spot grind on the chuck. Then grinding with .025 cross feeds and long travel and .0002 down, going off the long ends a few inches (for added cooling time, keep spraying with a spray bottle for coolant. look and listen for any slight change in the sparks or sound. Travel moderate. Not crazy fast or slow. have some pencil or grease marker lines on the chuck as whiteness marks to clean up. grind cross travel only one way and go back to start position.

You can stop and rest,and feel the chuck for any warmth. If you are dong it right comeng bach there will be no change in sparks or sound, doing it wrong you may see missing and the means you haad some warmth in the chuck.
RE:For exampls just holding your hand on a part can make it grow.

Home made coolant 2 table spoons of washing soda in a bucket of water (not baking soda).
Ops..I forgot to add: finish grind the chuck with Mag turned on.
If I have a lot of stock to remove I grind with mag off, and the then last .005 or so with mag on. I think the worst chuck had .015 or more to take. a hole/dip ar the chuck center at the bump rail.
Some machine guys say grind the back side and then the front, and this can be true if the back is not flat, X but for a new to grinding guy this may open another can of beans (problems)
 
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If you look at many you tubes you often see a thickening of sparks after a few long travels.. That is the part heating up and expandig up into the wheel

Then after a pause in grinding and going back to the part you see the grind hits first at the far ends..that shows that the middle took off more stock because of heat swelling and the middle became low.

When the part swells enough the full wheel hits the part and you can get a burn and sometimes a permenant warp and stress in the part that takes years to rest / perhaps never..

A burnt chuck may be harmed for life, even after the visual burn is removed.
 
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Taking off the chuck off it should be ground, but don’t do that right away if you are not experienced in grinding. *Many /most new to grinding will burn the first chuck they grind. . *let me know what wheel you have for chuck geinding..
Chuck hold downs at less than 20 lbs.
Buy a brand-new good size hone and keep it only for the chuck (and the like).
Darn , stone is back to $50. I just bought one for $26.
Your post here made me chuckle michiganbuck! And not in a bad way, but because it's spot on. When I got my Harig running( my first grinder ), my buddy, who used to own his own grind shop, told me "whatever you do, don't use grinding the chuck as your very first project". So, I did just that, of course. It seemed to go really well, and measurements immediately after the grind looked great. The next morning, I checked again, and the center of the chuck had a substantial dip in the middle, and I'm thinking HITF did that happen. Call my buddy, and explain what I was seeing. His first question was "Why did you do that, when I told you not to?" And then "Did you use some sort of coolant? No.......why not?" And then finally "Did you bolt down the chuck good and tight? Yes......why did you do that? It should be snugged down on the left, and just lightly tightened on the right." Then explained to me that I overheated the chuck, and it humped up in the middle, (because I had it mounted to tightly), and then I ground off the hump. It cooled overnight, and then sunk in the middle......dumb ass! So then I spent a week grinding scraps, and getting a feel for it, and dressing the wheel. Put a mist cooler on it, and then ground the chuck again. This time quite successfully. She grinds beautifully now. Sorry for the long winded story, but your post triggered a fond memory, and a good lesson learned. And also, thanks for sharing your grinding knowledge here!

Congrats to the OP on the Chevalier, looks like a nice machine! Great job on the VFD install.
 
Iwup, How is it going with your new (to you) surface grinder?
Drop us a note every once in a while.
Buck
Haven't done much since. Made a temp stand to move it around the shop until it finds a permanent location. Rewired the work light for a 5000k 194 LED bulb.
Been busy with CNC lathe and mill work lately...
 








 
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