Surface Grinders... or lack of new decent ones

[Mustang Jack]

so in the coming months I've been tasked with putting a small machine shop together to support a small sub assembly dept, one of the machines i need to source is a decent surface grinder, the obvious choice being in the UK is Jones and Shipman but it would appear the parent company doesn't make a simple toolroom Surface grinder anymore. is there any other reputable grinder brands to replace this? its either that or find a J&S 1400 or 540 that been reconditioned.

 

[michiganbuck]

Agree, I like a simple manual machine for one ups and few up. And I like a scraped in Iron ways..don't know if anyone makes them anymore. I think the Causing is a decent machine likely around $14K USD nowadays.

QT: [J&S 1400 or 540 that been reconditioned.] a good choice. I'm not in favor of the down hand wheel location but you get used to it..worse is the high-up-down-hand wheel location.
Will it be a grinder hand use matching, or an everybody machine, for mostly production part or one and few ups.
Acra and sharps are getting good reviews.

 

[sfriedberg]

Mitsui still makes manual 6x12 and 6x18 surface grinders of decent quality (as well as larger and more automated machines). They probably have a UK disributor.

 

[michiganbuck]

Buying a new ball way machine you might put a strip of masking tape along the long travel open space between the table and the saddle.
That is the prime direction abrasive grits get into that the long travel ball ways.

I have taken many such machines apart and that simple strip of tape will make the machine last twice as long. You oil the lower part so that does not stick and stick to the upper. Paint it if you wish..but don't let any paint get to or near the balls.

Good to place a grinder away from other machines and have strict rules about not using an air hose near a grinder...have the go/throw direction facing a wall, not a walkway...have a wheel board with a see through cover, so wheels are not dropped...have a surface plate near the grinder.

looks like Bridgports are in the UK..They used to be a highly rated machine. I don't know if they have scraped iron ways. Now BP is part of Harig grinders...
Provide a height gauge and a surface gauge for the grinder surface plate, good Idea to also have a set of Jo Blocks.

Angle plate, V block with clamp, C clamps or parallel clamps, set of 123 blocks, diamond dresser, block-in parallels could be company-provided or worker's tools.

likely start out with a 46k and 60k wheel, and have one 3/4 wide wheel mount so you can use a recess wheel if having a deep step part.

Dont let a green guy try to grind the chuck.

 

[CarbideBob]

.... Now BP is part of Harig grinders...
.

?
Unless I missed something Harig grinders are now owned by Tru Tech Systems Inc., Mt. Clemens, MI.
Their dedtru style machine became such a big seller that they bought the company and plant. This was early 2000s.
I could be wrong now but I do for sure remember this sale.

Clausing, now the 600 group I do not think makes any machines anymore. The grinders out of Taiwan and private labeled but decent quality and nice.
Bob

 

[Mark Rand]

Basically, Hardinge wiped Jones & Shipman out when they took them over. The only thing that is left is the name.

Andmar.co.uk have a number of second hand J&S540's. They also sell the Taiwanese Seedtec APS grinders new.

No connection, just browsed their site looking for spares for my J&S1400.

 

[winger]

Is Okamota sold there?

The manual and full automatic ones I used in school seemed pretty good.

Dave

 

[Mustang Jack]

Is Okamota sold there?

The manual and full automatic ones I used in school seemed pretty good.

Dave

it would appear they have a decent base over here, I shall take a look in to them. I'm leaning more to the side of an auto CNC one, its going to be a pretty lean team as regards to numbers so ideally I want to be able to put a spacer on the bed tell it to go to X amount and come back in 20 mins to a finished part, accuracy is key rather than speed

 

[michiganbuck]

Mark Rand's suggestion of Andmar.co.uk To contact and tell them what kind of surface grinding you intend to do might be the best choice. Even if you don't buy from them likey they will give valuable information.

Automatic feeds and, down-feed to size can be very handy, on the other hand often a grinder hand can manually run a part faster than a machine can be programmed. Good to really think about what you intend to do with this machine.

You may be top grinding for size and surface finish, grinding edge bevels on parts, grinding flats and whistle flats in tool shanks, grinding step heights on parts, cut-off carbide parts, grinding flat forms, grinding to square-up sides, grinding dovetails or angles, grinding a radius on a part. Just for a few options, who knows. Perhaps just want a Surface grinder because most shops have/need them.

To be good a SG should grind near-zero flatness for the length of the chuck.

Considering a used machine it might be good to pay for an inspection,

Re; don't let a green guy try to grind that chuck.

 

[michiganbuck]

An old school machine like J$S, Brown & Sharp, Bridgeport, Do All, G&L Grand Rapids and the older names like Landus, Norton, Abrasive, and the like will have a quality that can't be found in later machines, but they may not have the modern stuff like ball screw feed accuracy.

A late-model of the older names or a rebuilt machine can be good.

 

[Mike Henry]

Stefan Gotteswinter was recently extolling the virtues of the Bema FMS 260 surface grinder that he bought. See his posts on Youtube or Instagram for more info.

Looks like a "nice bit of kit" but as I recall the price is something north of 25k euros.

https://www.bemagmbh.de/en/range-of-services/lever-operated-flat-grinding-machine/

 

[winger]

I have a Kent (Taiwan) at home with a 6x14 magnet and digital readout I bought used. The elevation handle is about knee level and I put a folding handle on it.
It's on ball ways and much nicer for me than the oil bed type.
One drawback is no fine adjust with .0001

The company I work for part time has just bought a (used) 20 or 24 x 60 full auto Kent. . It's going into the new building so I haven't seen it run yet. Replacing a 12 x 48. Hope the new one is quieter. The hydraulics on the old one are loud, and no rapids on the cross.

Dave

 

[majohnson]

Look at Suburban Tool they have older manual surface grinders and they rebuild their existing machines. Don even has a YouTube video on rebuilding one. A friend of mine bought a DoAll that was not working, it took about 5 months to rebuild. It an amazing piece, I ran it to make a pin for him smooth as glass.

I purchased a Harig Autostep that was purchased new and the guy only used it to sharpen dies. Even though it a lighter machine then my friends DoAll, I am able to turn out some amazing parts it just takes a bit longer.

 

[Mark Rand]

Look at Suburban

I doubt that it would be viable for the OP to import a suburban tool grinder or any othe the other named US machines...

 

[winger]

Thanks for the tape tip.

Dave

 

[Mustang Jack]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

As much as my inner toolmaker wants to buy a refurbed late model J&S i don't think its a good choice for the work we are doing.
okamoto seem to be the best fit with the automatic side of things and they have a decent support network within the UK.

 

[goldhntr]

it would appear they have a decent base over here, I shall take a look in to them. I'm leaning more to the side of an auto CNC one, its going to be a pretty lean team as regards to numbers so ideally I want to be able to put a spacer on the bed tell it to go to X amount and come back in 20 mins to a finished part, accuracy is key rather than speed

We just acquired the Okamoto ACC818NC. I am just starting the learning process, but It will do exactly what you are wanting. A bit spendy, but really nice.

 

[michiganbuck]

The Okamoto ACC-8•18NC is a very nice machine. That you can run it like a manual can be very handy for that one-up that you can finish faster by manual operation.
RE: dresser includes one 2-point angle dresser for form dressing ) I will have to go on the net and see how that works.

Very nice: https://www.okamotocorp.com/acc-818nc-features/

Perhaps-> https://www.bing.com/images/search?...ctedindex=6&ajaxhist=0&ajaxserp=0&vt=0&sim=11

 

[majohnson]

Mark, Subtool does not make machines, they are one of top mfg of measuring and tooling for machinist. It was their own machines that was being rebuilt. Watch for auctions in some case you can find something to fit your requirements without going into debt.

Suburban Tool, Inc. - PRECISION WORKHOLDING & INSPECTION EQUIPMENT

 

[Mark Rand]

Mark, Subtool does make machines, they are one of top mfg of measuring and tooling for machinist

Yes, but they have no dealer presence in the UK, where the OP is from.