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Tapping fluid that doesn't stink.

Actually, if memory serves, the original reason to ban carbon tetrachloride was that rats that were heavily exposed sometimes got cancer. This was in the 1980s. People knew of ozone depletion and there were efforts to ban it for that, but the original justification was cancer.
You are correct about the cancer. Though I'm not so sure of the date. I started vocational school in 1979, and carbon tetrachloride had already been banned sometime before. My instructors spoke highly of its virtues, though. I've been exposed to a lot of crap throughout my career, and I knew quite a few people who died of cancer after being in industry for many years. I can't say for sure if certain chemicals were the cause, but it's not too difficult to live without an excess of toxic chemicals, so I'll try to keep it to a bare minimum.
 
I My wife doesn't want that smell in my house. Has anyone tried any of the newer, non-toxic, non-sulfurized, non-chlorinated, eco-friendly or whatever tapping and cutting fluids? Do they work as well as say, Tap Magic EP-Extra or similar cutting oils?

Come home reeking of rancid coolant for a while and she'll welcome the smell of cutting oil.

I was just using some Tap Magic, I rather like the smell.
 
Buying an ad on the site and offering free samples via the ad would be the right thing to do. Not only does it give you better coverage but it's better than posting to blatantly plug your product.
Thank you, honestly, for your feedback. I'm looking into an ad but trying to build our performance database beyond just the refractory metals. I may put out my own new post asking if people working with difficult metals would be willing to evaluate our fluid and share their results/video/testimonials for free fluid. Do you think that would be more acceptable? I also see a lot of posts about TCE. Our initial data came from Lawrence Livermore National Lab trying to find a safe replacement fluid that performed like TCE. They found our fluid was the same or better and non-toxic so switched over for their refractory metals.
 
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Thank you, honestly, for your feedback. I'm looking into an ad but trying to build our performance database beyond just the refractory metals. I may put out my own new post asking if people working with difficult metals would be willing to evaluate our fluid and share their results/video/testimonials for free fluid. Do you think that would be more acceptable? I also see a lot of posts about TCE. Our initial data came from Lawrence Livermore National Lab trying to find a safe replacement fluid that performed like TCE. They found our fluid was the same or better and non-toxic so switched over for their refractory metals.

Better than Trike? Now that I'd have to see to believe.
 
Thank you, honestly, for your feedback. I'm looking into an ad but trying to build our performance database beyond just the refractory metals. I may put out my own new post asking if people working with difficult metals would be willing to evaluate our fluid and share their results/video/testimonials for free fluid. Do you think that would be more acceptable? I also see a lot of posts about TCE. Our initial data came from Lawrence Livermore National Lab trying to find a safe replacement fluid that performed like TCE. They found our fluid was the same or better and non-toxic so switched over for their refractory metals.
That's for the moderators to decide, but I have some questions and a statement.

Do you have your own high end machinery in a laboratory to do testing for load, tool life, metal removal rates etc. I say high end because it's no good testing on some hobby machine with insufficient rigidity. I make this point as offering trial lots of coolant to home shop Harry's is no proof of it's performance. And are you doing benchmark testing against the competitors products in a strictly controlled laboratory environment.

If you are doing none of the above then in my opinion you are not a serious competitor in this space. My observations are based on over 40 years of experience in industry and having worked for multinationals who want to see scientific results.
 
Tap Magic EP-Extra: https://halocarbon.com/engineered-fluids/metalworking-fluids/halocarbon-mwf32/. We also offer a very high viscosity, MWF1000 that is similar to the "Xtra Thick" version that flows like honey.
Do you sell that stuff in non rail car quantities? I have never seen extra thick honey like tapping fluid, however it work we use a stuff called Royco HF 825. It's marketed as an aircraft o-ring assembly fluid, where the idea is that you essentially glue your o-rings in with the Royco and then you can assemble something without all the o-rings falling out. I had a project where we were testing a customer's component and they insisted that we use the Royco when assembling all of their parts, next thing I knew one of my guys was taking some of it and using it is a tapping fluid for larger taps. He really liked it as he could just dip the tap into it and he knew he was going to have plenty of lubricant while tapping. I've always thought it's a little questionable when you use tap magic or some other tap magic or some other liquid tapping fluid whether or not it's actually going to stay in the cutting zone or just fall away. There's clearly no question about it sticking around when the stuff is like honey. How does it work in the real world? My only concerns would be on the smaller taps that it might hold the chips in place and not properly clear. Otherwise I'm surprised thicker tapping fluids aren't more common.
 
If you're interested, I'd very much welcome your feedback comparing our fluid vs TCE. I can send you a small 2-4oz sample with the SDS. I'll try to message you to get your contact info to ship the sample.
 
That's for the moderators to decide, but I have some questions and a statement.

Do you have your own high end machinery in a laboratory to do testing for load, tool life, metal removal rates etc. I say high end because it's no good testing on some hobby machine with insufficient rigidity. I make this point as offering trial lots of coolant to home shop Harry's is no proof of it's performance. And are you doing benchmark testing against the competitors products in a strictly controlled laboratory environment.

If you are doing none of the above then in my opinion you are not a serious competitor in this space. My observations are based on over 40 years of experience in industry and having worked for multinationals who want to see scientific results.
We're a chemical company so we don't have machines in house but so far I have data from Lawrence Livermore National Lab (LLNL), Georgia Tech and some customers (e.g. NASA). I just received some good performance data on tungsten and TZM and I'm about to start a project with SRE to analyze performance on some metals, most likely Inconel 718 and C103. I've attached a screenshot of a slide that summarizes some of the LLNL data for reference. I'm trying to spread the news to people working with difficult metals (hard to find - I've only seen 2 posts on difficult metals here over past year) or that need superior finish so any continued guidance is greatly appreciated.

1708969030945.png
 
Do you sell that stuff in non rail car quantities? I have never seen extra thick honey like tapping fluid, however it work we use a stuff called Royco HF 825. It's marketed as an aircraft o-ring assembly fluid, where the idea is that you essentially glue your o-rings in with the Royco and then you can assemble something without all the o-rings falling out. I had a project where we were testing a customer's component and they insisted that we use the Royco when assembling all of their parts, next thing I knew one of my guys was taking some of it and using it is a tapping fluid for larger taps. He really liked it as he could just dip the tap into it and he knew he was going to have plenty of lubricant while tapping. I've always thought it's a little questionable when you use tap magic or some other tap magic or some other liquid tapping fluid whether or not it's actually going to stay in the cutting zone or just fall away. There's clearly no question about it sticking around when the stuff is like honey. How does it work in the real world? My only concerns would be on the smaller taps that it might hold the chips in place and not properly clear. Otherwise I'm surprised thicker tapping fluids aren't more common.
We do sell in smaller quantities with 1L as smallest commercial package today. I'm trying to decide if a smaller bottle, similar to other tapping fluids, would be a good fit for potential customers. I'm also willing to sample in a small 2-4 oz vial for people working with difficult metals or that need a superior finish and can share their results. Our MWF1000 has a viscosity of 1000 cSt at 40C so it's pretty thick like honey. It's used in very niche applications today but I thought it could compete with the "extra thick" tapping fluid in the market or be manually applied. One or our customers dipped their bits in our slightly "thinner" MWF100 to initially evaluate and were able to drill 27 holes vs 4 with their historical fluid. Send me a message if you're interest in a sample.
 
We do sell in smaller quantities with 1L as smallest commercial package today. I'm trying to decide if a smaller bottle, similar to other tapping fluids, would be a good fit for potential customers. I'm also willing to sample in a small 2-4 oz vial for people working with difficult metals or that need a superior finish and can share their results. Our MWF1000 has a viscosity of 1000 cSt at 40C so it's pretty thick like honey. It's used in very niche applications today but I thought it could compete with the "extra thick" tapping fluid in the market or be manually applied. One or our customers dipped their bits in our slightly "thinner" MWF100 to initially evaluate and were able to drill 27 holes vs 4 with their historical fluid. Send me a message if you're interest in a sample.
I don't understand all the agony. If this is just a clever scheme to advertise for free, you have now exhausted that, and the aggregate effect has become negative.

Just offer 6-ounce samples for a while and you will soon know the answer. And if it works nearly as well as you claim, there will be a chorus of positive reports right here on PM. And there are some here who could well order a full barrel.
 
We're a chemical company so we don't have machines in house but so far I have data from Lawrence Livermore National Lab (LLNL), Georgia Tech and some customers (e.g. NASA). I just received some good performance data on tungsten and TZM and I'm about to start a project with SRE to analyze performance on some metals, most likely Inconel 718 and C103. ...
Dude ?
TCE, TZM, LLNL, SRE, Did I miss one?
How about MQL?

People know what Tryke is.
As well as Tri-Chlor.
Be it NASA had been around for ever,
so no secret there.
But you, my friend, are HIGH on initialisms.
You sound important but people have to
decode your initialisms in their head every
time you use one to be able to understand
what you are talking about.
How about this rule.....?
If saying the letters of the initialism
equates to more syllables or hard vowels
than the actual words that you are trying to
initialize, don't do it. It is more difficult to say.
Just like instead of saying the A.F.L.C.I.O.,
just say Union.
Thank you for suffering my rant.

Hey, Molly Dee works well.
I only smells a little.
But I only use a drop or two
(sorry, MQL)
so it does not smell at all to me.

-Doozer
 
Unicorn Tears, when it comes to testing tapping fluids, a friend of mine told me that the old sales demo that tapmagic had made up, was a spring-loaded hand tapping unit. It had a ratchet built in and they would tighten down the tap until it stopped turning by hand but tension and torque was still being applied by the tapping head. He said then the salesman would give the tap a squirt of tapmagic.

And he said you would then see that the tap would do another half turn into the material. He said it was really neat to watch the liquid at work removing friction. Then he said they had to remove the trichloroethylene from the recipe and the stuff never worked nearly as well. Do you guys have such a rig on hand? I might be able to design and make one for you if needed.

I don't know if the demonstration described above is what's really important when it comes to using a tapping fluid. The other thing that I think would be pretty convincing or a very good way to demonstrate/test the effectiveness of your product versus the competition would be to hire a machine shop with a CNC mill to drill and tap a whole bunch of holes to a given size, program and a routine where you dip the tool into the fluid, then tap and re dip and then see how many holes your fluid can tap versus the competition. I would assume at some point the tap should dull, and then break, if your competitors fluid only did 200 holes and yours did 1000 I guess you'd be the winner. Is this still the correct way to do it? I really don't know.

Clearly on the honey like formula one could count on the fluid to stick to the tap, however it might overload it with chips. On the other hand for a very fluid liquid, one could imagine the stuff falling off the tap before it even engages in the hole, and this might make a potential better fluid appear to underperform in the testing. So I guess the question is how should one tapping fluid be compared against another? If you could send me a sample I'd be happy to try it out, but I have no scientific way of actually testing to say if it works any better than what I currently use.
 
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One or our customers dipped their bits
Now that's information that you really didn't need to share. Although it brings to mind one of those silly ditty's that my mate used to quote in the army.

There stood dead eye Dick the only man with a left hand prick
He searched the world both far and wide to find himself a left hand bride

Cannot remember the rest it's been over 40 years.

So to summarize is your client left or right handed and if left handed has he found a bride?
 
I bought some machine tools for my home shop and am finding that when I use any of the chlorinated/sulfurized tapping and cutting oils, there's a lingering smell in my shop. I remember the first old job shop I went to work for, and how it smelled like that. My wife doesn't want that smell in my house. Has anyone tried any of the newer, non-toxic, non-sulfurized, non-chlorinated, eco-friendly or whatever tapping and cutting fluids? Do they work as well as say, Tap Magic EP-Extra or similar cutting oils?
Nothing wrong with a little stank on it
 
As far as I know, Blaser Swisslube offers a range of eco-friendly cutting fluids, such as Vasco 7000 series, which are low-odor, biodegradable, and free from chlorine, sulfur, and heavy metals.
 
For light tapping in many materials, plain, old soap can do the trick.
However, I use Castrol tap wax, and Trim Tap light in my shop with excellent results.
 
I bought some machine tools for my home shop and am finding that when I use any of the chlorinated/sulfurized tapping and cutting oils, there's a lingering smell in my shop. I remember the first old job shop I went to work for, and how it smelled like that. My wife doesn't want that smell in my house. Has anyone tried any of the newer, non-toxic, non-sulfurized, non-chlorinated, eco-friendly or whatever tapping and cutting fluids? Do they work as well as say, Tap Magic EP-Extra or similar cutting oils?
Im going to recommend you spend some time on ventilation if you want to keep cutting at home or change out the upstairs unit. Ridged cutting oil for tapping is good, available and affordable. It will smoke at high surface speeds.
Trichloroethane 1,1,1 went out with R12 as I recall.
I suspect both are still used in Defense Plant production of very tough materials. I had a relative pass from Berillyosis. He didn’t give up secrets but he did give his life for the Defense Industry .
 








 
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