The first and last Haas I'll ever buy

[DRobs86]

I have a Haas ST15Y. I've had it for just under 3 years now, but it has less than 1000 hours. We've diagnosed that the processor board is sending bad signals on the X channel, causing some servo alarms and the machine to be inoperable. The HFO tech agrees with our assessment based on our diagnostics. The new board is $6250! That's with a core exchange. It's $12,000 otherwise. That tells me that they likely recycle stuff back in. They require an HFO tech to install it. $375 for the first hour. $175/hour thereafter. With labor ($175 an hour for them to drive a few hours to us as well), I'll be into this for $8000 to $9000 on a machine with less than 1000 hours. We manufacture things here, so I understand that sometimes things just break. What I don't understand is the business practice of capitalizing on your machine's failure to extract what seems like unreasonable sums of money from a customer.

I'm told that X signals can't just be routed to an open motor channel on the drive. I feel like it "could" happen, but I can't really say. Knowing what I know about controls, I'm about 95% sure someone at Haas could make this happen and save me the money.

We run multiple mills, this lathe, laser, waterjet, etc. This is our only Haas, but it stands out as a problem child...

The C axis had a problem a couple weeks into it arriving. They fixed it. Weeks later it failed to disengage and ripped the drive gear, all the while being down for 3 week intervals. The machine has to be restarted frequently to get the C axis to engage, even still. The spindle draw tube had some seal fail and the hydraulic oil was contaminated with coolant. The coolant sump is cast into the base. It gets flooded with chips. It will literally fill up ENTIRELY with chips if you don't clean it out. There was no filter for the coolant pump, so we constantly had to take tools off and pull coolant lines to clear it out as every other day it would get blocked with chips. They finally sent me a basket filter for it. I had a $350 encoder cable fail last year. Now this $8000 to $9000 problem. Some small shops that are hanging by a thread wouldn't be able to cover this. Luckily I have it, but I'm disgusted to pay it.

In short, I'll never buy another Haas.

 

[broke]

I keep hearing stories like this.

I have been an Okuma shop for years and have always negotiated great terms with up to 5 years parts and labor. I only ever had one issue with something going wrong and it was when a spindle blew up under 2 years old. It was replaced in 10 days total and I wasn't charged a penny.

I don't know how Haas is still in business if the competition is so much more competitive.

You should get your salesman on the line and ask him if he thinks that is reasonable. I would bend over backwards if something like that happened on a product I sold.

 

[DBcooper]

Unfortunately that's not a terribly unique experience (especially on this forum)

Shop I used to work at had a UMC 500, purchased new. Before they could run any kind of production on it, the Haas tech was there 6-7 times if I remember correctly

 

[Josh@OTTP]

The coolant tank on the ST15 is a joke. The noise from the belt is another problem, you would go deaf without ear protection.

 

[DBcooper]

The coolant tank on the ST15 is a joke. The noise from the belt is another problem, you would go deaf without ear protection.

If that's in any way comparable to the st10, I 100% agree. Incredibly loud

 

[Josh@OTTP]

If that's in any way comparable to the st10, I 100% agree. Incredibly loud

It's the same noise.

 

[dana gear]

I have a Haas ST15Y. I've had it for just under 3 years now, but it has less than 1000 hours. We've diagnosed that the processor board is sending bad signals on the X channel, causing some servo alarms and the machine to be inoperable. The HFO tech agrees with our assessment based on our diagnostics. The new board is $6250! That's with a core exchange. It's $12,000 otherwise. That tells me that they likely recycle stuff back in. They require an HFO tech to install it. $375 for the first hour. $175/hour thereafter. With labor ($175 an hour for them to drive a few hours to us as well), I'll be into this for $8000 to $9000 on a machine with less than 1000 hours. We manufacture things here, so I understand that sometimes things just break. What I don't understand is the business practice of capitalizing on your machine's failure to extract what seems like unreasonable sums of money from a customer.

I'm told that X signals can't just be routed to an open motor channel on the drive. I feel like it "could" happen, but I can't really say. Knowing what I know about controls, I'm about 95% sure someone at Haas could make this happen and save me the money.

We run multiple mills, this lathe, laser, waterjet, etc. This is our only Haas, but it stands out as a problem child...

The C axis had a problem a couple weeks into it arriving. They fixed it. Weeks later it failed to disengage and ripped the drive gear, all the while being down for 3 week intervals. The machine has to be restarted frequently to get the C axis to engage, even still. The spindle draw tube had some seal fail and the hydraulic oil was contaminated with coolant. The coolant sump is cast into the base. It gets flooded with chips. It will literally fill up ENTIRELY with chips if you don't clean it out. There was no filter for the coolant pump, so we constantly had to take tools off and pull coolant lines to clear it out as every other day it would get blocked with chips. They finally sent me a basket filter for it. I had a $350 encoder cable fail last year. Now this $8000 to $9000 problem. Some small shops that are hanging by a thread wouldn't be able to cover this. Luckily I have it, but I'm disgusted to pay it.

In short, I'll never buy another Haas.

Haas always seems to be a problem child. My equipment salesman always seems to have a few that came in as trades aginst a better machine,the customer generally is o.k. with a fire sale, as a rule of thumb he gives little to nothing for a Haas.

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

The last place I worked at before going on my own had four Haas machines. Two lathes and two mills.
The one lathe and the one mill were essentially trouble free.
The other mill had an ATC go bad after two years - that was a $9k fix.
The other lathe has had five spindles in four years. They finally went outside of Haas for a spindle just to get the machine running.
Now they buy Doosans.

 

[Trueturning]

I do like the Haas a lot and also Mazaks are very good too. I feel like the Hass machines required less calls for repair in my opinion. It seems the Hass had a lot more support than Mazak. With machines they can be very expensive to fix if a shop gets a problem machine. Regardless no one is happy when they are not running effectively.

 

[MCritchley]

$175 Hr seems like a lot for driving time. Now we know how Gene is funding his F-1 team.

 

[Alloy Mcgraw]

Yeah, but Haas does a great job at giving Instagram kids boners.

Haas does do some things other MTBs don't do.
*You can go online and "build" a machine and get ballpark pricing.
*They push hard at a social media presence, this does have some effect. Love SM or hate it, it's powerful and the language of the next generation.
*They make decent Youtube videos on how to take advantage of and/or operate the machines functions.
*They have become a pillar of the machinist starter kit, along side Fusion 360 and dudes that wear their hat to the side.

As a disclaimer I have never owned a Haas, and won't own one. They have their place, but I think there's much bigger bang for your buck out there if you take the time to look past the sheet metal.

If you forget about the media, marketing, etc....And strictly look under the hood...Weight that against pricing....There are much better ways to spend your money.

 

[Pattnmaker]

Yeah, but Haas does a great job at giving Instagram kids boners.

Haas does do some things other MTBs don't do.
*You can go online and "build" a machine and get ballpark pricing.
*They push hard at a social media presence, this does have some effect. Love SM or hate it, it's powerful and the language of the next generation.
*They make decent Youtube videos on how to take advantage of and/or operate the machines functions.
*They have become a pillar of the machinist starter kit, along side Fusion 360 and dudes that wear their hat to the side.

As a disclaimer I have never owned a Haas, and won't own one. They have their place, but I think there's much bigger bang for your buck out there if you take the time to look past the sheet metal.

If you forget about the media, marketing, etc....And strictly look under the hood...Weight that against pricing....There are much better ways to spend your money.

I think other manufacturers could learn a lot from some of the above. I haven't bought a Haas but have built one online a few times to get ballpark prices. I am not a millennial but still don't want to call a salesman for pricing when I am in the tire kicking stage. Sometimes the tire kicking stage jumps to buying stage quickly with picking up work. I can't believe how long it often takes to get pricing for stock products.

For a company moving from manual machines to cnc or a company just jumping into cnc their videos could be really helpful. I am sure Haas specific things are very useful even for experienced machinists

 

[BluishInventor]

Love SM or hate it, it's powerful and the language of the next generation.

What is SM?

 

[Philabuster]

What is SM?

Social Media

 

[Mike1974]

IMO, Haas and Mastercam go hand in hand. If you know Mastercam, you can get a job programming. Haas is probably the best known MTB for cnc machines out there, not the best, but best known. Almost every machinist knows how to run a Haas. Schools aren't going to spend money on top iron to get crashed every week.

And I have heard it here almost on the weekly, no one likes salesmen. No sales visits from Haas until you have built and priced your machine and to seal the deal to say. No endless emails and "let me check into that for you", cold calls "so how we thinking on that machine" etc. The only time I liked salesmen is when they bring in a tool to try on their dime, doesn't perform, no problem, what about this or that...

 

[Alloy Mcgraw]

I think other manufacturers could learn a lot from some of the above. I haven't bought a Haas but have built one online a few times to get ballpark prices. I am not a millennial but still don't want to call a salesman for pricing when I am in the tire kicking stage. Sometimes the tire kicking stage jumps to buying stage quickly with picking up work. I can't believe how long it often takes to get pricing for stock products.

For a company moving from manual machines to cnc or a company just jumping into cnc their videos could be really helpful. I am sure Haas specific things are very useful even for experienced machinists

I agree entirely.

Just being able to ballpark price a machine online is huge imo. Obviously there will be some negotiation that follows, but you get an idea up front without inviting the monsters(salesmen) into every aspect of your life. Would love other MTBs to follow suit.

I went to buy a walk behind blower this week from my local dealer.....It's call for pricing....For a leaf blower! I'm sick of the old way of doing things.

In buying lubricants. I have the salesman tell me he can save me 10% on barfeeder oil. Yeah, but it's send a RFQ, wait a day/two for quote, make/send PO, then wait a week or two for delivery. I'd rather pay 10% more for go online, place order, it arrives the next day. All without a phone call, and it takes 3 minutes. In small business, convenience has big value in some cases.

Every time I buy a new machine, I go to war. I have at least 3 machines quoted in the same class/functionality and pit them against each other. It usually takes me a month to buy a new machine, usually takes that amount of time to find the final price.

I've had the exact same Koma 4th quoted once at the same point in time across 4 MTBs, price range was from $11k-$22k.

Haas seems to understand where some of the market is headed(especially 3 and 4 axis verticals, and looks like the 5 axis start up area), and it has paid off for them.

 

[cyanidekid]

Haas is still in biz only because of 4 reasons;
All the jerkoffs who get “startup money” to make a “disruptive” fingerfucker thingy and buy 3 and go bust in 5 months,
All the other startup jerkoffs who get one and use it every 3 months to make a “prototype” in plastic,
The 8 out of 10 that actually work
And the above cited marketing.
Oh, and aluminum. If that didn’t exist, neither would they.

 

[4GSR]

I'm sure it has been spoken of before here, there are companies out there that will take your board, troubleshoot it, and make the repairs for a fraction of what the OEM wants for a trade in. Of course, it depends on if a person can get the parts to make the fix and may even depend on getting the schematics to that board, too.

 

[reggie_obe]

Local VoTech bought a Haas TM1P last year. Same shop has many old SouthBend machines.
Is Haas doing via modern marketing methods what SB once did by brand familiarity, and word of mouth?

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

You have to hand it to them, Haas knows how to get the word out.
Their video content is top notch and they make the process as easy as possible.

I'd never buy one, but I can see why others do.