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The Haas that would not work---revisited $700,000 engine block project---Maybe not the Haas?

standardparts

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Mar 26, 2019
In one of the 'problems with my machine' threads earlier this year someone linking the vid showing a race engine builder "challenged" by a Haas purchase that they could not get to work.
New vid up on YT shows it appears issues resolved and first product coming out of machine.

In a way it look like a few years back it's possible there may have been some lack of knowledge regarding the learning curve involved in this type of very complex project.
What they are presenting is way over my pay scale so I'm sure others on PM will be able to post some interesting comments.....
Vid is somewhat long but there is some info that illustrates how complex and expensive a project can be and maybe the shop owner money guy finds out how complex making parts is.....

 
Whoa boy ... for me, this is a testament to Haas patience. These guys are buffoons, yet Haas put up with them, must have held their hands, got them to where a couple of nitwits could produce an engine block. Good job Haas.
Yeah, that was sorta my take on it. (taking into account the guy must be pretty successful/sharp in having the bucks to fund the project)
Although.....only speaking for myself....there was a time I really believed all it took was the cash/credit to 'buy a machine'...push a button and watch everything magically happen.
Might be a little bit of over enthusiastic machine sales people helping that all along......
 
Whoa boy ... for me, this is a testament to Haas patience. These guys are buffoons, yet Haas put up with them, must have held their hands, got them to where a couple of nitwits could produce an engine block. Good job Haas.
And literally months of techs on that machine. This machine is one of many in the umc soap opera. With writers strike I might have to catch up on the re runs.
 
Tom Bailey is well regarded as one of the top engine builders in the country, but boring and decking blocks doesnt necessarily mean you know how to machine...
a lot of these guys that are making their own billet blocks have no fucking clue what they're doing when it comes to machining. watch steve morris' engine blocks and heads, chatter marks ALL over. makes me cringe.
 
In a way it look like a few years back it's possible there may have been some lack of knowledge regarding the learning curve involved in this type of very complex project.

Haha. I started to reply to this last night. I don't think I could sit through the original video again without punching a wall. It was so much the expectation: "we bought the machine! Where is the big 'Do' button? Make me engine dammit!"

I couldn't find the original video last night. Did they delete it? Never heard of the guy but, it got suggested because of all the other manufacturing content I watch.
 
In one of the 'problems with my machine' threads earlier this year someone linking the vid showing a race engine builder "challenged" by a Haas purchase that they could not get to work.
New vid up on YT shows it appears issues resolved and first product coming out of machine.

In a way it look like a few years back it's possible there may have been some lack of knowledge regarding the learning curve involved in this type of very complex project.
What they are presenting is way over my pay scale so I'm sure others on PM will be able to post some interesting comments.....
Vid is somewhat long but there is some info that illustrates how complex and expensive a project can be and maybe the shop owner money guy finds out how complex making parts is.....

That was a painful watch…

Good on them for trying. But they come off as a bunch of ass hats.
I’m gonna chalk some of it up to “marketing to your crowd”
 
I worked with a guy like this ......his mother left him a small fortune ,and he used the money to build his dream shop ......everything was first class,the place was new and spotless .....everything ,even a parts trolley ,had to be the best ......for instance a special rubber sheeting that cost like $500 for a square metre.on all surfaces.
 
I’m gonna chalk some of it up to “marketing to your crowd”
Is there really a crowd like that ? I crewed on a midget team for years and years; some midget racers are top-level thinkers, in it for the mental challenges. Others less so. Much less so. And before that worked in a place that made wheels and brakes and frames for merdersickles, had quite a few hell's angels as customers. One of my favorite guys got killed in a shootout with the pigs.

No one, in either group, was anything like the blowhard asshats in that video.
 
Is there really a crowd like that ? I crewed on a midget team for years and years; some midget racers are top-level thinkers, in it for the mental challenges. Others less so. Much less so. And before that worked in a place that made wheels and brakes and frames for merdersickles, had quite a few hell's angels as customers. One of my favorite guys got killed in a shootout with the pigs.

No one, in either group, was anything like the blowhard asshats in that video.
Times change.
Gearheads is gearheads and that ain't all bad.
 
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I give the guys credit for openly talking about their problems. Learning is usually painful in one way or another. I am sure a lot of this goes on at Chevy and Ford...the difference is they don't discuss it in public, and of course they have a larger pool of talent on which to draw and build.

What I don't get is...it looks like aluminum they are machining...and they say the started with a 700lbs chunk of material and machined away 400lbs to end up with a 300lbs block.

That's a very heavy block. It doesn't look that big physically. Is it a diesel engine block or?

A Mopar 426 Hemi 'Mega' block in cast iron, with unmachined bores, weighs 290 lbs. Once you machine the cylinders it will drop about 10lbs. This is the 'race' block which as added material in various areas...a stock block would be a bit less. So why would an aluminum block weight 300lbs.?
 

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It's a 580 CI block built for up to about 70lbs of boost good for 5,000 horsepower. I imagine it's got a lot of meat to hold all that power in aluminum. 6061 no less. As far as the machine builder goes it's kind of hard to say. I believe they were having true issues at first with stuff lining up properly when doing 5 axis work( a complaint I've heard before on here with Haas 5X machines, and those were "proven" machines not a first of a new model.) He definately was over his head which is why he had his machine moved to a machine shop that knew more. They did say that after it was moved Haas spent a full week there getting it within spec which the guy said was within 0.002. Am I spoiled running Mazaks or is that not that good as far as a new machine spec goes.
 
Well old man "whore of the orient"--
That's a well-known nickname for the city ... I was kinda hoping for a little push in that direction, it's getting really tame around here :D

Gearheads is gearheads and that ain't all bad.

I was wondering because the remark "marketing to your crowd" caught my eye. Ross and moonlight probably don't count, they have an upscale crowd but dragsters, like those phonies seem to want to impress,


Sammy sure as hell doesn't act that way. Nobody I have known acts that way. None of the people I've come across in any area of motorsport do ... even the angels. In fact the h-a would laugh their asses off.

Who are they pitching their act to ? It's not any of the people who actually build winning engines.

Or is it ? This is the deal now ? Wild Hogs ? Dentists and CPA's with cutoffs ?
 
That's a well-known nickname for the city ... I was kinda hoping for a little push in that direction, it's getting really tame around here :D



I was wondering because the remark "marketing to your crowd" caught my eye. Ross and moonlight probably don't count, they have an upscale crowd but dragsters, like those phonies seem to want to impress,


Sammy sure as hell doesn't act that way. Nobody I have known acts that way. None of the people I've come across in any area of motorsport do ... even the angels. In fact the h-a would laugh their asses off.

Who are they pitching their act to ? It's not any of the people who actually build winning engines.

Or is it ? This is the deal now ? Wild Hogs ? Dentists and CPA's with cutoffs ?
Don't know about you but it's all about selling. How it's done changes with the times but the end result is selling the sizzle. It ain't done anymore by going door to door with a sample case, and likely not even on TV in prime time. Now it's all about social media, and venues like youtube.
The guy in the vid has 134,000 subscribers and the vid 81,000 views which is likely more than either of us could garner.

Am I impressed...kinda, and I do find it interesting in some ways. Fact is THEY ARE making chips, cutting paychecks, and (hopefully) producing revenue and here in the United States any type of machining is a good thing. And, who knows, maybe some kid someplace will get inspired not by the hype and bee-ess but by that nice shiny hunk of finished aluminum.
 
Don't know about you but it's all about selling. How it's done changes with the times but the end result is selling the sizzle.
You could be right. That'd be a pretty big difference tho, every single person I have ever known in motorsports was interested first in producing a better product/device/whatever and second, or maybe third, in sales. Yes, you need sales to survive but that came because your stuff was better, not because you could put on some doofus act.

Race track promoters excepted :)

I guess Arlen Ness would be closest to what you describe but anyone with a brain knew he was a flake. This stuff is kind of like buying a veg-o-matic because the salesman wore a hawaiian shirt and straw hat, and said "aloha" a lot. :(

People really fall for this crap ?
 
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Nice that they admitted that the matetial relieving itself was an issue. I wonder what Haas had to do. You know there are no perfect mfgs. They learn eventually or die.
 
I guess Arlen Ness would be closest to what you describe but anyone with a brain knew he was a flake. This stuff is kind of like buying a veg-o-matic because the salesman wore a hawaiian shirt and straw hat, and said "aloha" a lot. :(

I used to work with a guy who used to weld for Arlen Ness, only welder I've seen better was Terry Knight who welded for Dick Mann, and maybe Dave Miller (DMC)
 
Oy Vei! How many years of his life did he loose from the stress of this whole ordeal? Way cheaper to hire some professionals to do this.

For 700k and given 2 years of time it would have been way better to turn-key this with a medium end 5 axis. Shit I would have turn keyed it for a 100k easy. Probably could find a good lightly used machine for 300k-400k. Probably up and running making production blocks in less 4-6 months.

This is a great example of how making sure you know what you know, and most importantly know what you don't know comes into play BIGTIME!
 








 
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