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The Haas that would not work---revisited $700,000 engine block project---Maybe not the Haas?

...but they do have a vicious kitten mode...
:LOL:


30HP is a power hungry mf'r. 100 amps continuous at 80% spindle load. I melted a lot of electrical components getting my RPC and shop wiring to supply that for 45 minutes at a time churning out billet converter shells.
I asked because a buddy is in a small industrial park that only has 208 3-phase. He bought a 50HP Omax waterjet. He also had to do the transformer thing which doubles the amps. And then waterjets are a pretty continuous load. That was an expensive installation. I think he'd have power problems except the unit the waterjet is in, doesn't share any other heavy power consumers on that panel.
 
:LOL: You got me! The I heart Gene thing on my arm is a branding though. They wouldn't let me into the secret club without burning flesh.


Ehh, that's a stretch. I haven't missed a Westec in 24 years and one IMTS under my belt. DMG and Mazak are on my radar for a 5-axis and Brother if I ever needed something small. You and Empower seem to think DMG and Mazak are trash too. Can't win with you guys.

It would be easy to dismiss me if I were brand-ignorant. If anything I'm retail price ignorant and that's squarely on the sales strategy of the other MTBs. Same reason I've never bought a new car and never will: I don't like the pricing model.



I produced my own picture of a Makino, from the Westec floor 15 years ago and you think I don't know anything? I have a pretty big demo part sitting here that came out of a Makino horizontal the year before. Want to see it?

If someone is spending half a million dollars on something, it's on them to take a plane ride and go look at it, whether that's at IMTS, Oxnard, Chicago or any of the other reseller showrooms around the country.

And while we're at it: it sure looked pretty darned rural where they were installing this UMC-1600. Did anyone think that maybe they only have 220 split-phase or 208 3-phase at best? Maybe a 50 HP horizontal that demands 480 wasn't even an option.
i hate to break it to ya bud, but looking at machines at a trade show, and running them day to day are 2 VERY different things believe it or not...
 
you know, after all this shouting and name calling, has anyone considered that the end goal for the peeps in question is to make money from YouTube? The machines and project and the like are a means to an end, not the end itself. Indeed, the more "My Haas shit the bed!" and "OMG WTF bonkers!" videos they can post, the more views they get and the more money they make. So buying a cheap functional machine and making the product they set out to make would actually hurt their business model.
 
you know, after all this shouting and name calling, has anyone considered that the end goal for the peeps in question is to make money from YouTube? The machines and project and the like are a means to an end, not the end itself. Indeed, the more "My Haas shit the bed!" and "OMG WTF bonkers!" videos they can post, the more views they get and the more money they make. So buying a cheap functional machine and making the product they set out to make would actually hurt their business model.
i'll stop you right there...
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all the views from his videos likely wouldnt pay for the 100k+ he makes for each of his SMX billet engine packages. he'd be an absolutely TERRIBLE business owner to rely on youtube views to make a living.
 
:LOL: You got me! The I heart Gene thing on my arm is a branding though. They wouldn't let me into the secret club without burning flesh.

How about just maybe not digging your heels in so deep defending Haas to the death until you try out another builder?

I've never been to a Westec or any machine show whatsoever. I do know several really good independent machine tool techs, I have friends at really big shops and owners of small ones. I've bought, paid for, rigged and ran 20+ CNC mills and lathes in nearly two decades in business including Haas VMC's. I don't make 1000 engine blocks a day like Bob implies I need to before my opinion is valid, but literally hundreds of times I have been required to find the best value machine solution I can afford to manufacture a product and not one time has that solution had a Haas sticker on it.

Go buy something without a Haas sticker on it then come back and report.
 
you know, after all this shouting and name calling, has anyone considered that the end goal for the peeps in question is to make money from YouTube? The machines and project and the like are a means to an end, not the end itself. Indeed, the more "My Haas shit the bed!" and "OMG WTF bonkers!" videos they can post, the more views they get and the more money they make. So buying a cheap functional machine and making the product they set out to make would actually hurt their business model.
Yeah....back at post #155
The bling and merch likely add substancial revenue to the business,
 
How about just maybe not digging your heels in so deep defending Haas to the death until you try out another builder?

I've never been to a Westec or any machine show whatsoever. I do know several really good independent machine tool techs, I have friends at really big shops and owners of small ones. I've bought, paid for, rigged and ran 20+ CNC mills and lathes in nearly two decades in business including Haas VMC's. I don't make 1000 engine blocks a day like Bob implies I need to before my opinion is valid, but literally hundreds of times I have been required to find the best value machine solution I can afford to manufacture a product and not one time has that solution had a Haas sticker on it.

Go buy something without a Haas sticker on it then come back and report.
this is so fucking wild... people willing to die on an anthill because they arent willing to turn around and see mt everest just on the opposite side.

you dont have to spend millions to get better machines than haas, literally 10-15% more for a comparable doosan is at least 5x better than a haas. i truly understand that this concept is very difficult to believe, because i thought it impossible as well, back when my only experience was programming and running fadals and haas machines. hell, i'd take a fadal before a haas honestly.

dont just go out to a trade show and look at machines, go ask your machinist buddies that have something other than haas to see if you can try them out personally, i promise you'll start looking at haas in a very different light.
 
i'll stop you right there...
View attachment 417990


View attachment 417989

all the views from his videos likely wouldnt pay for the 100k+ he makes for each of his SMX billet engine packages. he'd be an absolutely TERRIBLE business owner to rely on youtube views to make a living.
The youtube videos are advertising that makes people aware of the company and product.
Without his youtube vid we would all be denied the purse swinging on PM.
 
The youtube videos are advertising that makes people aware of the company and product.
Without his youtube vid we would all be denied the purse swinging on PM.
thats not the point... the gentleman i replied to thought that youtube views are paying for these guys to make the videos, buy all the equipment etc... they arent.
 
How about just maybe not digging your heels in so deep defending Haas to the death until you try out another builder?
It's not about digging in heels. It's about the reality: Steve Morris Engines has a UMC-1600-H that they bought. That's what's sitting on their floor and that's the reality they are dealing with. That reality will include the service they actually get from their local HFO and maybe any assistance the factory offers.
  • Is it the best machine for the job? Doesn't matter. That's what they have.
  • Could they have bought more for less? Doesn't matter. They literally peeled their building open to let that one in.
  • Could they have achieved better surface finish or faster material removal? Doesn't matter. That will be up to cutter sellers to optimize now because that's the spindle and rigidity they have.
Everything not pertaining to what they have is mental gymnastics. I'm still getting much from this discussion though. I read the UMC installation guide as a result of this thread. MRZP makes more sense and I see the shortcomings as a result. Now I'd like a day to myself with a UMC 750 so I could investigate why they have positioning problems.
 
It's not about digging in heels. It's about the reality: Steve Morris Engines has a UMC-1600-H that they bought. That's what's sitting on their floor and that's the reality they are dealing with. That reality will include the service they actually get from their local HFO and maybe any assistance the factory offers.
  • Is it the best machine for the job? Doesn't matter. That's what they have.
  • Could they have bought more for less? Doesn't matter. They literally peeled their building open to let that one in.
  • Could they have achieved better surface finish or faster material removal? Doesn't matter. That will be up to cutter sellers to optimize now because that's the spindle and rigidity they have.
Everything not pertaining to what they have is mental gymnastics. I'm still getting much from this discussion though. I read the UMC installation guide as a result of this thread. MRZP makes more sense and I see the shortcomings as a result. Now I'd like a day to myself with a UMC 750 so I could investigate why they have positioning problems.
you are a thief of joy, sir...

wtf else are we supposed to argue about then? :angry:
 
thats not the point... the gentleman i replied to thought that youtube views are paying for these guys to make the videos, buy all the equipment etc... they arent.
as standardparts wrote better, it's all part of the business. At some point all the rest of it (making engines, racing, whatever) becomes a means to get views, sell merch and be self-promoting asshats. They certainly won't be the first.

edit: that's the first time I've ever been called a gentleman too. At least you didn't call me a young man :)
 
as standardparts wrote better, it's all part of the business. At some point all the rest of it (making engines, racing, whatever) becomes a means to get views, sell merch and be self-promoting asshats. They certainly won't be the first.
of course people watch the channel for that stuff, maybe the way you wrote your post came off wrong, because i understood it as if you're saying the only reason steve morris for example builds engines etc is just for the views, which is 100% wrong. i'm sure at some point it'll become a reasonable source of revenue, but nowhere near it right now, and wont be for a long time. he absolutely is relying on actually building engines (which he does EXTREMELY WELL btw) for his income.
 
It is interesting to see the Hass bashing here.
It's sort of been limited to their goofball models. I don't see the dislike for the VF2 and 3 type simple verticals that their goofball machines bring. A Timex keeps on ticken' but it ain't no Patek Phillipe.

To all with chips in their shoes choose.
A 10-20 year old Hass or a original K&T smaller Milwaukee-Matic (tool changer up top) or a 2 (tool changer on side)?

Ya blew that one, buddy :) K&T used to rebuild/recontrol the Ea and Eb's .... for anything that fits a hori, I'd take one of those in a heartbeat. I'd choose a 200 or 600 or 1015 over any haas ever built. The machines are 100 times better, the controls are 1000 times better. Also better than any worthless effing jap shit ever created, either. If they put the D into modern electronic components it'd kick ass to this day. Those controls are a joy to run.

Shall I also assume FADALs are also junk machines?
Ask Vanc :D To be fair tho, both haas and fred andy dave and larry were built to a price point. They allow people with less money to get into the game. They serve an honest purpose, it's not fair to compare them to the high-priced spread.

It's just that haas should maybe stick to what they are good at instead of making stuff that doesn't cut the mustard.

I will take the weenie POS Hass.
You can have it, I'll whup yer butt with my D control 600. It'll be like Lester Hayes playing Pop Warner :D

Maybe much of I love this machine tool comes from people who do not write the checks and balance the books.
Okay, okay, that's true .... but the haas company really should not build this weirdo junk that just makes them look bad. It's like Yugo trying to build a luxury car, yes ?

One good point you made : I can't believe all these dipshits wanting to make engine blocks but none of them hire a GM or Ford guy to give advice ? wtf, over ? If I'm going to spend that kind of money, I'm going to ask someone who knows what they are doing first. Jeeze.
 








 
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