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Thought provoking video regarding automakers worldwide

You guys will have to just learn to forgive me, I get quite opinionated on the use of road salt as I have grown up admiring old American cars and this idea of what America is as a place that knowing how many beautiful vehicles have been destroyed from it use just makes me sad.
 
There are many places in the world that have lots of snow and their vehicles don't rust as much (adding the “as much” due to future posts taking this comment way too literally). They don't use salt. There are non corrosive alternatives to getting rid of snow.
I live in a state, Massachusetts, that supposedly is very pro-environment yet they apply massive amounts of road salt that gets into the storm drains and eventually the waterways. Recently many municipalities have switched to brine which is more efficient but why so late?
 
You guys will have to just learn to forgive me, I get quite opinionated on the use of road salt as I have grown up admiring old American cars and this idea of what America is as a place that knowing how many beautiful vehicles have been destroyed from it use just makes me sad.
How much snow have you actually driven in ?
How about when you stop in the middle of the ice covered road, to help someone that is stuck, when you step out and close the car door, immediately fall down ? Ever drive in waist deep snow in the middle of the night ? Snow rolling up over the fenders, and you can barely see if you in fact on the road ?
Try driving where I doo with steep hills thrown in for good measure.

Instead of us "Learning".... why don't YOU "Learn" eh ?
 
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How much snow have you actually driven in ?
How about when you stop in the middle of the ice covered road, to help someone that is stuck, when you step out and close the car door, immediately fall down ? Ever drive in waist deep snow in the middle of the night ? Snow rolling up over the fenders, and you can barely see if you in fact on the road ?
Try driving where I doo with steep hills thrown in for good measure.

Instead of us "Learning".... why don't YOU "Learn" eh ?

I mean’t no disrespect to you or anyone else. I actually appreciate the comments as any chance I can learn about anything and educate myself on a subject is something I greatly appreciate.

I never intended for my comments to be any kind of personal attack.

I understand 100% what you are saying.
 
I have to say that I think in California driving in snow is seen as the drivers problem. Most of us only "go" to the snow one or two days a year to play in the snow. Very few people live in snow country in California. Yes we have have some of the worlds best snow plows etc but most people here never drive in snow.
A big problem is all these 4wd SUV,s people think 4wd means the brakes work in snow just as well as the 4wd does in forward.
Bill D
 
Please explain the cost associated with it's usage, the damage it causes to the roads, the wildlife, and how well it works.
After reading his post on CMA I did some quick searching and it does seem to be less corrosive and more environmentally friendly.
See section 15 iii in the linked document.

"iii. Application of calcium magnesium acetate, sodium acetate/formate, or other environmentally acceptable, minimally corrosive anti-icing and deicing compositions for bridges (and approaches to bridges and other elevated structures) and tunnels;"

 
After reading his post on CMA I did some quick searching and it does seem to be less corrosive and more environmentally friendly.
See section 15 iii in the linked document.

"iii. Application of calcium magnesium acetate, sodium acetate/formate, or other environmentally acceptable, minimally corrosive anti-icing and deicing compositions for bridges (and approaches to bridges and other elevated structures) and tunnels;"

I don't see anything from him with personal advice on it's actual effectiveness. Links to reports don't cut it at 11:00 pm on an icy road in feb, at -20f.
Maybe he would like to ban salt so the ambulance can't get thru to save him, or a fire truck to rescue him.
 
I don't see anything from him with personal advice on it's actual effectiveness. Links to reports don't cut it at 11:00 pm on an icy road in feb, at -20f.
Maybe he would like to ban salt so the ambulance can't get thru to save him, or a fire truck to rescue him.

Can we just forget this discussion. All I was broaching was the idea of alternative options not banning anything outright. Who in their right mind would ban something before finding a viable alternative.

It’s like power. I hope New Zealand oneday opens up the idea of going nuclear as an alternative to our coal plant and to generate more power than our “renewable” options but it would be stupid to ban coal without reliable alternatives.

That is the biggest problem I have with EV’s not the concept of an EV but that the infrastructure upgrades should be pursued before any talk of banning ICE options.

It’s like building a cargo ship without having a dock to load and unload it. Not a smart idea.

It’s not black and white. It’s like my weight, I know I weigh too much. I know I need to lose it, I know it’s not healthy. But it’s not a snap fingers overnight change, it takes a slow calculated transition to a better/healthier lifestyle.
 
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Somewhere along the line I think certain aspects of society have instigated this thought that if something is bad it should be banned (trust me living in New Zealand with governments we have had I’ve seen it).

I don’t agree with that concept at all. My logic is more that humanity should use its brainpower to over a realistic period of time find ways to transition to better things.

But be careful not to rush into things that aren’t ready.
 
I don't see anything from him with personal advice on it's actual effectiveness. Links to reports don't cut it at 11:00 pm on an icy road in feb, at -20f.
Maybe he would like to ban salt so the ambulance can't get thru to save him, or a fire truck to rescue him.
I don't read his posts as banning salt but rather encouraging road departments to use CMA whenever possible, as many states already do. Sprayed on a dry road before a storm it is extremely effective at preventing ice and allows plows to do a better job.

Over the years I've spent considerable time and money repairing rust damage on vehicles and even damage to bluestone paving at the house cause by the city truck dumping a pile of salt on the dry road outside, which passing vehicles churn into a dust cloud that gets into everything. They've only recently switched to CMA or brine.

Here is my state's explanation of de-icing treatments. Note that salt is the cheapest option.

 
Can we just forget this discussion. All I was broaching was the idea of alternative options not banning anything outright. Who in their right mind would ban something before finding a viable alternative.

You'll just have to learn when to ignore Doug. He is VERY highly opinionated and thinks highly of his opinions. While I tend to agree with him most of the time, he could do with out coming off as an overly aggressive asshole.

It's why he, Milland, and Rozen are so entertaining. Same personality, different ends of the spectrum.
 
He is VERY highly opinionated and thinks highly of his opinions. He could do with out coming off as an overly aggressive asshole.

Oh, He's a real unicorn.

I mean it's not like there's a ton of overly opinionated assholes here to deal with regularly.:rolleyes5:
 
I don't see anything from him with personal advice on it's actual effectiveness. Links to reports don't cut it at 11:00 pm on an icy road in feb, at -20f.
Maybe he would like to ban salt so the ambulance can't get thru to save him, or a fire truck to rescue him.
The salt that we use in Michigan doesn't work at 20 below zero F so what's your point?
 
They've only recently switched to CMA or brine.

Here is my state's explanation of de-icing treatments. Note that salt is the cheapest option.

Out here they use beet juice and salt.....When they feel like it.

The usual M.O. locally is to wait until the snow stops, THEN you plow/treat the roads.

Folks out here don't know how to drive in snow/ice. They think if they have an Escalade they have magical powers of braking and traction, therefore, they can drive 70 MPH all the time.

That is the ONLY thing I miss about living in Michigan. Folks know how to drive in the snow.

I'm unaware of the CMA thingy, but it sounds interesting. How long does it last after applied?
 
Can we just forget this discussion. All I was broaching was the idea of alternative options not banning anything outright. Who in their right mind would ban something before finding a viable alternative.

It’s like power. I hope New Zealand oneday opens up the idea of going nuclear as an alternative to our coal plant and to generate more power than our “renewable” options but it would be stupid to ban coal without reliable alternatives.

That is the biggest problem I have with EV’s not the concept of an EV but that the infrastructure upgrades should be pursued before any talk of banning ICE options.

It’s like building a cargo ship without having a dock to load and unload it. Not a smart idea.

Well said! I used to ponder this question to no end. I still don't get why otherwise intelligent people would advocate cutting off their nose to spite their face in this instance.

For those who have authority to make decisions, the fact is that they just don't care. Progress is progress and collateral damage is acceptable.

Btw... I've been a life long resident of northeastern Ohio and I'm with you on the road salt. If a better option exists, we need to use it. I've been wrenching on old rusty junk my whole life. I'm tired of losing vehicles I actually enjoy driving due to the use of road salt.
 
Having owned several Japanese vehicles in addition to mostly American ones I think it is clear why so many are "turning Japanese" and not going back. It's not just initial quality but also what happens as the vehicle ages and replacement OEM parts are needed. The most recent one had only ONE recall in 15 years and that was for the Takata airbags so commonly used in multiple brands.
 
Today, 9/2022, at the moment, atm, electric cars from tsla are beginning to use the new higher-density 4680 battery cell format.
This is about 5-10-20% better depending on how you measure volume, cost, mass, or longevity.
The 1 million 4680 cells produced milestone was just breached.

Within a medium timeline of 1-2 years the new cells will be a staple, and will reduce EV battery production costs by about 10-20% / total power.
Trending 20%, because chemistry advances and cell-line production advances and dry-cell-production benefits will also roll in to some extent.

This makes EV vehicles the nr 1 choice for about 90% of the OECD countries.
 
The transition from ICE to EV---Someone will feel the pain.

"Stellantis said Friday that escalating costs to shift to electric vehicle production is forcing it to indefinitely halt operations at its assembly plant in Belvidere, Illinois, where 1,350 people work."

(Of course it could be related to the viability of the product produced there and overall strategy of Stellantis based in Netherlands)

 
Today, 9/2022, at the moment, atm, electric cars from tsla are beginning to use the new higher-density 4680 battery cell format.
This is about 5-10-20% better depending on how you measure volume, cost, mass, or longevity.
The 1 million 4680 cells produced milestone was just breached.

Within a medium timeline of 1-2 years the new cells will be a staple, and will reduce EV battery production costs by about 10-20% / total power.
Trending 20%, because chemistry advances and cell-line production advances and dry-cell-production benefits will also roll in to some extent.

This makes EV vehicles the nr 1 choice for about 90% of the OECD countries.
EVs may be the number one choice for countries but how many vehicles does a country buy compared to ordinary people? At the current time I have no desire to own one and I know plenty of people who feel the same way. Most of the people I know who own EVs do so largely because they are "trendy" and all but a handful also own one or more IC engine veehicles.
 
Most of the people I know who own EVs do so largely because they are "trendy" and all but a handful also own one or more IC engine veehicles.
I own two because the performance, convience and packaging is just way better than an IC engine car. And no I don't own any other gas powered cars.
 








 
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