Hydrulic shears are as slow as fuck, rake normally although adjustable is just a cheat to get it to cut max thickness. If you think you can part a 3/8" plate at shear speed silently, you must have already gone deaf and have gravity turned way down so it does not hit the floor on the off cut side.
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Time for a new shear?
- Thread starter Esracerx46
- Start date
- Replies 42
- Views 8,580
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
HEY! Don't give away all of Mother England's Industrial secrets in ONE GO, willyah?
Three generations now? Most gone stone-deef off their alleged "music" were supposed to be a secret strategic reserve for re-industrialization!
We will NEED that Masochistic edge again to COMPETE, post-Brexit!
Septics are f**ked. Outsourced everything but obesity and damned foolishness to the Chinese, and they are WORKING HARD on the damned-foolishness, long-since!
Loudmouthed-fool politics have already been distributed as a form of viral bio-warfare. Mind, they are still the market leaders.
Bobnotthecat
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2009
- Location
- S.W. PA
Sir,
We had the very same shear where I worked many years ago and can attest to it's reliability and profitability! As for the noise, we had men that would trip the machine treadle and hold it down just to hear the music. One guy became so mesmerized, shoving a piece of scrap trough it, that I had to pull his hand away as he proceeded to insert his fingers under the hydraulic hold down. Luckily he only lost the tip end of his glove finger. If fab shop noise is disturbing you, perhaps you should find another line of work.
I read all of the post here and I think that there is a question about shear blade clearance adjustment and ones ease of changing same in the hydraulic shears. My input on that subject is that your old Cincinnati shear has a built in feature of blade clearance. The top blade guide ways are angled such that the closer the top blade drops toward the lower the less blade clearance. Therefor on a thicker plate the clearance is at a desirable automatic greater distance and the thinner work has the needed lesser clearance. This feature is the reason so many desired the Cincinnati shear instead of it's competitors. Perhaps that is why it was imported to Sweden in the first place.
I think all that you need is a good paint job. Old is not necessarily obsolete and new is not necessarily better.
Respectfully,
Bob....not the cat.
We had the very same shear where I worked many years ago and can attest to it's reliability and profitability! As for the noise, we had men that would trip the machine treadle and hold it down just to hear the music. One guy became so mesmerized, shoving a piece of scrap trough it, that I had to pull his hand away as he proceeded to insert his fingers under the hydraulic hold down. Luckily he only lost the tip end of his glove finger. If fab shop noise is disturbing you, perhaps you should find another line of work.
I read all of the post here and I think that there is a question about shear blade clearance adjustment and ones ease of changing same in the hydraulic shears. My input on that subject is that your old Cincinnati shear has a built in feature of blade clearance. The top blade guide ways are angled such that the closer the top blade drops toward the lower the less blade clearance. Therefor on a thicker plate the clearance is at a desirable automatic greater distance and the thinner work has the needed lesser clearance. This feature is the reason so many desired the Cincinnati shear instead of it's competitors. Perhaps that is why it was imported to Sweden in the first place.
I think all that you need is a good paint job. Old is not necessarily obsolete and new is not necessarily better.
Respectfully,
Bob....not the cat.
Mike C.
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
"Original ship date of 5/21/1948. Pretty crazy to think it's still that good all these years later
The level of quality on anything produced in that era will never be matched again. I have a 1942 GE refrigerator that still works perfectly. No, it's not frost free, and no, it doesn't have a digital temperature control pad, but that's part of the reason it still works.
As for Chinesium, 99.999% of everything sold now is Chinesium, whether it is admitted or not. Chances are the castings on a brand new Cincy are MIC, along with most of the hydraulic parts and controls. My company sells German made submersible pumps. We recently reworked a brand new one, 140hp. The rotor was covered in chinese writing.
The level of quality on anything produced in that era will never be matched again. I have a 1942 GE refrigerator that still works perfectly. No, it's not frost free, and no, it doesn't have a digital temperature control pad, but that's part of the reason it still works.
As for Chinesium, 99.999% of everything sold now is Chinesium, whether it is admitted or not. Chances are the castings on a brand new Cincy are MIC, along with most of the hydraulic parts and controls. My company sells German made submersible pumps. We recently reworked a brand new one, 140hp. The rotor was covered in chinese writing.
Big B
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2009
- Location
- Michigan, USA
Back during the recession about 8 or 10 years ago I bought some stuff at an auction. They had a Cincinnati shear like the one you have. It went for about $4,000. I have no idea how high it would have gone for if I had decided to get in on the bidding and I didn't have room in my 2,500 sq/ft building but what a screaming deal.
Big B
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2009
- Location
- Michigan, USA
Also, good call on the air conditioning. I was talking to a shop owner from Iowa who had a shop of a little less than 50K sq/ft and it was air conditioned. I asked him if the cost of the A/C was worth it and he told me that he pretty much got the pick of the litter as far as employees went because of it.
Esracerx46
Plastic
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
4000 is about what we paid for it and that's when we increased the shop size from 2500 to 5500 SF. We own the building, but lease the other half of it to an equipment dealer. They want the whole building and what they're offering for rent coupled with our need for more shop space already is why we'd build new and upgrade the equipment if possible. Doesn't sound like upgrading the shear is possible. I'd still be interested in retrofitting the NC backgauge. Maybe we'll clean it up and make it look prrrty.
We took the treadle off and went with a single foot pedal just for safety reasons. Still had a guy put his fingers under the guard and pushed the pedal himself. Hold down caught the tip of his index and middle finger. One of two lost time accidents in 35 years. The other being a gas tank the guy washed the inside with diesel to hide the gas odor. Literally blew up in our guys face. Boss man told the guy we don't work on gas tanks over the phone, guy said oh no it's fuel not gas. He was airlifted out but ended up OK after a few days in the hospital.
We took the treadle off and went with a single foot pedal just for safety reasons. Still had a guy put his fingers under the guard and pushed the pedal himself. Hold down caught the tip of his index and middle finger. One of two lost time accidents in 35 years. The other being a gas tank the guy washed the inside with diesel to hide the gas odor. Literally blew up in our guys face. Boss man told the guy we don't work on gas tanks over the phone, guy said oh no it's fuel not gas. He was airlifted out but ended up OK after a few days in the hospital.
Milland
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 6, 2006
- Location
- Hillsboro, New Hampshire
One add-on you might want for the machine is a light curtain interlock, set a few inches in front of the hold down.
Big B
Diamond
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2009
- Location
- Michigan, USA
Probably could even use an inexpensive one from a garage door.
Esracerx46
Plastic
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
We've got a physical barrier a few inches in front of the hold downs the material goes under. Really gotta try to get your fingers far enough under it to reach the hold downs. But he did it. Not a bad idea though.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
Phht. Could give him mine, we were equally optimist or just CHEAP.
The sensors off it are at each end of a length of polywood trim screwed to the ceiling next to the motor about 2 feet apart aimed right AT each other 'til I get the gumption to disable the silly things on-PCB.
It's a frigging lightweight panel door, here, and already balanced for easy manual operation if need be. Yah have to STEP on a rail it to close it that last foot. It ain't a b***y guillotine.
A shear? Now that's a whole 'nother hoss, and yah need FAR BETTER goods than cheap-arse and easily damaged, confused, or failed ga-rage door junk.
Look 'em up. "It's an INDUSTRY", safety goods as meet and beat OSHA and more. The tough housings alone tell the tale they are serious about it.
My bet is he already HAS sumthn', too.
Mike C.
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2004
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
No way in hell. Not that it wouldn't work perfectly, but liability. If some knucklehead managed to bypass it and got hurt, the lawyers would swarm. No difference in operation from a light curtain, but I'd sure spend the extra bucks for a genuine OSHA approved curtain, instead. Would be better NOT to have one than a repurposed garage door safety, in the eyes of the lawyers.
thermite
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2011
True, but even so - screw the Lawsters. The GOAL is to keep all your body parts.
This is NOT "new news". It's been ongoing easily fifteen years, already, and the levels of reliability and effectiveness have long-since been addressed:
Light Curtains – Press Brake Safety
OSHA & Light Curtains -- Occupational Health & Safety
Machine Guarding eTool | Presses - Presence Sensing Devices
Safety Light Curtain Questions | KEYENCE America
Safeguarding: Make Intelligent Safety Light Curtain Choices | EHS Today
IIRC that shear has a full revolution clutch...meaning a light curtain won't doo
anything.
Research Rockford safety systems, you need full guarding so you can't get your fingers in there (including under the Hyd hold downs) at any time.
I retrofitted a shear with a simple guard addition, and the operator can still see the shadow line.
Esracerx46
Plastic
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2018
Good info on the panels. Definitely going to look into the perforated sheets. I was at Halas Hall where the Chicago Bears practice looking at a job the other day. They just renovated and on of their buildings is metal. But for aesthetics the bottom 5 feet or so is block, and then the IMP's on top. We liked that idea keeping the Sparks and slag away from the panels where it can sit. Any idea on the IMP cost? The manufacturer I've spoken to is hesitant to give me a number until were further along in the process. We're working on zoning and if were able to drill under wetlands to tie into City sewer as a expanding the existing field isn't an option.
metlmunchr
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 25, 2004
- Location
- Asheville NC USA
We've got a 1/4 x 12' Pearson swing beam hydraulic, made in the UK. Bought a 1/4 x 10' Wysong mechanical later, just because it went for a good price at auction. Sold it a couple years later.
The hydraulic is smoother than the mechanical, but overall not a bunch quieter. Sound level of the hydraulic is lower, but the duration of a cut is longer so its sort of a wash. The Pearson has adjustable blade clearance that's as simple as moving a lever but no rake adjustment. I don't think swing beam shears ever have adjustable rake.
All done, I like the Wysong over the Pearson, but my dad preferred the Pearson because, other than possibly chipping or cracking a blade, if someone sticks something in it that it can't cut, it won't self destruct.
A good 10 or 12 ft quarter inch shear will weigh 20,000 lb +/- a couple thousand, depending on make. Your Cinci weighs about 33,000#. 1.5 times the capacity and 1.5 times the weight. Makes sense.
A shop near ours bought a new 1/4x10 hydraulic, don't remember the brand, but it weighed about 13K. The owner told me it was the biggest pile of junk he'd ever seen disguised as a piece of machinery. Via a lawsuit he eventually forced the seller to take it back for a full refund plus damages for loss of use. He said they'd come and "adjust" on it for half a day, and about half a dozen full capacity cuts would have the blade clearance at about twice what it was supposed to be as well as the backgauge being off from the actual cut length by 1/8 or more. Weight can be engineered out of some types of machinery while maintaining equivalent functionality, but shears and press brakes aren't among those machines IMO.
The hydraulic is smoother than the mechanical, but overall not a bunch quieter. Sound level of the hydraulic is lower, but the duration of a cut is longer so its sort of a wash. The Pearson has adjustable blade clearance that's as simple as moving a lever but no rake adjustment. I don't think swing beam shears ever have adjustable rake.
All done, I like the Wysong over the Pearson, but my dad preferred the Pearson because, other than possibly chipping or cracking a blade, if someone sticks something in it that it can't cut, it won't self destruct.
A good 10 or 12 ft quarter inch shear will weigh 20,000 lb +/- a couple thousand, depending on make. Your Cinci weighs about 33,000#. 1.5 times the capacity and 1.5 times the weight. Makes sense.
A shop near ours bought a new 1/4x10 hydraulic, don't remember the brand, but it weighed about 13K. The owner told me it was the biggest pile of junk he'd ever seen disguised as a piece of machinery. Via a lawsuit he eventually forced the seller to take it back for a full refund plus damages for loss of use. He said they'd come and "adjust" on it for half a day, and about half a dozen full capacity cuts would have the blade clearance at about twice what it was supposed to be as well as the backgauge being off from the actual cut length by 1/8 or more. Weight can be engineered out of some types of machinery while maintaining equivalent functionality, but shears and press brakes aren't among those machines IMO.
Wouldn't happen to be made in IOWA would it ?
Maybe the "visit's" were just testing like they did in the forum.
Rob F.
Diamond
- Joined
- Aug 5, 2012
- Location
- California, Central Coast
They don't give you a price per sq/ft? That should include all trim, screws, special sealants etc. I want to think the Kingspan guy told me on the phone $10 or $12 sq/ft for wall panels based on 40x60x16 building (for 6" rockwool acoustic panels)
I am seeing the cost of IMP about a wash with metal or wood studs, outer metal panel, insulation and liner panel. Conventional way has 4 separate installations. Imp uses a very minimal frame so cheaper to get framework up and then panel installation. Rockwool panels are very heavy compared to standard foam panels. Of course a steel building with fiberglass blanket insulation and metal panels will be cheaper, but start to add in liner panel and and what if you want to attach anything to the wall?
Something else you can look at is AAC blocks, Airated Autoclaved Concrete. These are "foamed" concrete that is full of tiny air bubbles for good R-value. Use these blocks for bottom of wall and IMP above?
Street
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2015
- Location
- Melbourne Victoria Australia
I was in a test cell that used blocks with a cut in the middle
(vertical slot) and had rock wool or something inside.
I don't think they were the lightweight ones, just regular,
but with the slot (and inside chamber)
SOUNDBLOX and Soundcell by Acoustical Masonry Quiets Your Building
Looks like they some other kinds as well:
Create an improved environment in architectural masonry acoustics
(vertical slot) and had rock wool or something inside.
I don't think they were the lightweight ones, just regular,
but with the slot (and inside chamber)
SOUNDBLOX and Soundcell by Acoustical Masonry Quiets Your Building
Looks like they some other kinds as well:
Create an improved environment in architectural masonry acoustics
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