What's new
What's new

Tips and Tricks for running a Drill Tap machine more efficiently

Doug............you don't need a tapmatic head on a drill tap..............well, at least not on a Brother.................a Haas DT.......who knows?
Never ran a Brother. BUT - why beat the living s**t out of your spindle drive if you don't have to?
Watch your load meter when you do stuff like this. It's constantly tached into the red.
 
When I worked for Doosan (Now DN-Solutions), the tapping cycles could NEVER get to that level before the threads were completed. Ever. You can program an M29 S6000, but it never sees 6k in the cycle. It might ramp to 2k or 3 on a deep hole, MAYBE. But 6k? I'd have to see some real good proof of that.
Even if you could do this - and I don't think it's physically possible, look at the load meter. You're slamming into the red for the nearly the entire FWD/REV cycle. Sure it's only for a few seconds, but with lots of holes, over a 20-30 year machine life? Nope. I wouldn't.
I don't know enough to comment about the capabilities of drill tap machines reaching 5-6k during tapping, and wear and tear in that application.

What I do know is that if this DT is anything like our 22' VF2SS prototype machine, its not going to reach 20 years, let alone 30. The VF2 has about 300hr, yesterday my enclosure lights started flickering, I've replaced the rubber way wipers 2 times already, they crack. Paint on the bottom of my enclosure is chipping in large areas, the control freezes from time to time when running probe cycles.
 
I don't know enough to comment about the capabilities of drill tap machines reaching 5-6k during tapping, and wear and tear in that application.

What I do know is that if this DT is anything like our 22' VF2SS prototype machine, its not going to reach 20 years, let alone 30. The VF2 has about 300hr, yesterday my enclosure lights started flickering, I've replaced the rubber way wipers 2 times already, they crack. Paint on the bottom of my enclosure is chipping in large areas, the control freezes from time to time when running probe cycles.
Last place I worked at had a VF3 that loved eating tool changers, and an ST30 that had a voracious appetite for spindles. Neither was abused.
 
Never ran a Brother. BUT - why beat the living s**t out of your spindle drive if you don't have to?
Watch your load meter when you do stuff like this. It's constantly tached into the red.
Because while that might be beating the living shit out of other machines, it is no harm no foul on a Brother. It is what they were built to do and there are over 200,000 out there to prove it. They don't go through spindle drives or motors when used like that. It is a no brainer.

Not to mention your inaccurate comment about the machines not getting to speed. A HT 10,000 RPM Brother can go from zero to 10,000 RPM stop and reverse to 10,000 RPM in the other direction in under a second.
 
Heck, my old Mori 30 taper taps at 6k and has never had a spindle drive issue. Even after running it on single phase power for the past 10 years. Much prefer this over the old days of a floppy tapmatic going through the toolchanger and hoping everyone gets the torque arm aligned so it doesn’t get trashed.
 
When tapping at high speeds, keep in mind that the spindle almost never reaches the target RPM before stopping to reverse. None of these holes are terribly deep so the machine isn't really going to reach the intended speed.
What WILL happen is that your motor loads are going to be sky high and the wear and tear on your spindle will be enormous.

I highly recommend a Tap-Matic NC head or similar. MUCH faster for doing lots of tapped holes and the machine never physically reverses direction. Easier on the spindle, motors, drives, etc. I had one and I could even cycle through the ATC with no issue. A time saver.
My Brother taps 10 6-32 holes ~3/8 dp in about 8 seconds. I am not at max tapping rpm
That is tap, move to next hole tap etc
 
But 6k? I'd have to see some real good proof of that.
Even if you could do this - and I don't think it's physically possible,
The Brother does this easily.
Their spindles are insane with how quickly they get up to speed and decelerate to 0. I've literally never seen anything like it. YouTube videos don't do it justice, you gotta see it in person to believe it.
 
I am with Douglas on this one, keeping in mind it is a Haas we are talking about, not a Brother. I ran the shit out of Tapmatics on early "Robodrills" and a Fadal. I never found them to be anything other than amazing, and no spindle load spikes twice per hole. Also never had someone load the tapper backward so never an issue with the torque arm.
 
Did you get to the bottom of why this was happening? An M3 form tap in 6061 should be fine, even at 5x depth.
I had issues with M3 roll taps in 6061. Turned out to be running coolant with too low a concentration at the time
 
I am with Douglas on this one, keeping in mind it is a Haas we are talking about, not a Brother. I ran the shit out of Tapmatics on early "Robodrills" and a Fadal. I never found them to be anything other than amazing, and no spindle load spikes twice per hole. Also never had someone load the tapper backward so never an issue with the torque arm.
+1 Tapmatics work great on Fadals
 
The Brother does this easily.
Their spindles are insane with how quickly they get up to speed and decelerate to 0. I've literally never seen anything like it. YouTube videos don't do it justice, you gotta see it in person to believe it.
I'll second that.......4-5-6k tappin'.......once you see it first hand you'll be left shaking your head and questioning the meaning of life..................................
 
I don't know enough to comment about the capabilities of drill tap machines reaching 5-6k during tapping, and wear and tear in that application.

What I do know is that if this DT is anything like our 22' VF2SS prototype machine, its not going to reach 20 years, let alone 30. The VF2 has about 300hr, yesterday my enclosure lights started flickering, I've replaced the rubber way wipers 2 times already, they crack. Paint on the bottom of my enclosure is chipping in large areas, the control freezes from time to time when running probe cycles.
My 30 year old Fadal doesn't do that..... =)
 
Because while that might be beating the living shit out of other machines, it is no harm no foul on a Brother. It is what they were built to do and there are over 200,000 out there to prove it. They don't go through spindle drives or motors when used like that. It is a no brainer.

Not to mention your inaccurate comment about the machines not getting to speed. A HT 10,000 RPM Brother can go from zero to 10,000 RPM stop and reverse to 10,000 RPM in the other direction in under a second.
I'm not quite convinced. I worked for a major MTB, and our spindles just could not do that. Maybe a Brother's can, but I'd have to see that.
 
The Brother does this easily.
Their spindles are insane with how quickly they get up to speed and decelerate to 0. I've literally never seen anything like it. YouTube videos don't do it justice, you gotta see it in person to believe it.
And what is the load when doing this?
I'll wager a cold soda that the motor load meter is slamming into the red the whole time.
Maybe the Brother spindle has no problem with this. But I'd be very nervous treating a machine tool this way.
 
I'm not quite convinced. I worked for a major MTB, and our spindles just could not do that. Maybe a Brother's can, but I'd have to see that.
It is done all the time. I know who you worked for. The technology is as solid as it can be, used in auto production lines and other high production 24/7 situations.
 
Thanks for the feedback, will order a form tap.

For roughing,

Using a 3/8 chip breaker EM, for pockets and outside contours, is it preferable to 50% radial engagement and slower feed or 10-15% engagement and high feed? Axial engagement is about 1/2”.


Remember to get the correct size tap drill for your form tap, It is larger than a cut tap drill.
 








 
Back
Top