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Tips and Tricks for running a Drill Tap machine more efficiently

"It might ramp to 2k or 3 on a deep hole, MAYBE. But 6k? I'd have to see some real good proof of that."

Brother Spindle Accel/Decel is not 0 but pretty close at 6k rpm. I frequently set clearance plane at .050". Spindle completely stops on every hole. One major difference is Brother machines use a synchronous Internal Permanent Magnet spindle motor. Typical machining centers have high torque at low rpm and that falls off pretty rapidly to almost nothing at top rpm. The IPM motors have slightly lower peak torque at the low end but a broader torque range with more torque available at high rpms which is where most modern machining is being done. They also have more torque with less power consumption. This is why a Brother High Torque machine can drill 1.5" in steel and tap 1"-8 in steel on a 30 A breaker. Modern electric cars use IPM motors to get the most torque with maximum battery life. Brother combines the performance and responsiveness of the motor with their own proprietary Synchronized Tapping feedback which keeps the spindle synchronized to the Z axis. Think about that. You have a 10 plus horsepower high performance motor with a relatively lightweight BT30 holder that is being controlled. Other builders try to control the Z axis to match the spindle. What is the horsepower and responsiveness of the Z motor? How much weight is the Z axis motor trying to control through a ball screw and coupling? Here are a couple of videos :


Client posted this, 30 holes, 30 seconds, two taps with tool change:

Brother machines are designed and built to do this all day long for years.
 
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Speedio spindle load spikes every time the spindle starts or stops, so every tool change... all day long. The design seems very refined. Probably another reason they made their own control as Fanuc probably doesn't let customers push the envelope as much. Note, the Speedios closest competition is a Fanuc machine where they probably tweak things that they wouldn't let their customers. Also, 30 taper spindle makes it super fast. Probably why you don't see a 40 taper Speedio.. too much mass to sling around that fast. Who makes the drives for Haas? Are they made in the US?
 
I don't see how either because the tapping cycle is sooooo short. .5mm pitch, 13mm deep = 26 revs. At 6000rpm, a rather convenient number, that is .26s cut time.
yup that would make sense.
.8 total time hole to hole

I do it
all
day
long
not a theory
I pecked tapped some plastic I thought might be flexing, that is really nutty, you can hear it go twice but you cannot really see it.

You guys are talking about 30 year old technology.
IF spindle drives are dying while working within their envelope, they were not designed right in the first place
 
Heck, my old Mori 30 taper taps at 6k and has never had a spindle drive issue. Even after running it on single phase power for the past 10 years. Much prefer this over the old days of a floppy tapmatic going through the toolchanger and hoping everyone gets the torque arm aligned so it doesn’t get trashed.
Vancbiker,
What do you mean "running your Mori on single phase" ?
Could you explain please, rotary phase converter, just single phase, or what ?
The reason I'm asking is just got a Mazak VTC in my single phase shop and planning to use a rotary.
Thanks,
Bob
 
Sheesh! OP asking about his DT, pretty sure he ain't trading it in on a brother..
random thoughts if not already shared -

tap coating should be bright polish ( NO! aluminum oxides! special coating will be insigiificant

default your post to desired R so no need to change it all the time

always have coolant nozzles set for your taps of different gage lengths, one 'dry' spell at those speeds and no more tap ( I know that sounds like duh, but in the hands of an unskilled operator)
 
Vancbiker,
What do you mean "running your Mori on single phase" ?
Could you explain please, rotary phase converter, just single phase, or what ?
Just single phase. No rotary. No Phase Perfect. The Mitsu servo drives and spindle drives can run single or 3 phase input. The control itself is single phase. The biggest change was adding a small (3/4hp) inverter to run the coolant pump. I could have switched to a single phase motor on the pump, but it was cheaper to go with the inverter. This is a small 30 taper machine with a 5HP, 8k spindle. No hydraulic system.
 
Mike, I have found coatings for form taps in 6061 can be quite a significant improvement if you start to push the envelope. I have a customer that wants maximum thread percentage AND formed threads for the extra strength. Without a proper coating, I would struggle with some welding on bright 10-24 taps, with a good coating no issues. I have found this to be true with other tools in 6061. When you push them to the breaking point a good coating lets you go a fair bit farther, consistently.
 
Sheesh! OP asking about his DT, pretty sure he ain't trading it in on a brother..
random thoughts if not already shared -

tap coating should be bright polish ( NO! aluminum oxides! special coating will be insigiificant

default your post to desired R so no need to change it all the time

always have coolant nozzles set for your taps of different gage lengths, one 'dry' spell at those speeds and no more tap ( I know that sounds like duh, but in the hands of an unskilled operator)
I think we were assuming that Haas is a low budget Brother, not really trying to get him to change machines.....
 
Speedio spindle load spikes every time the spindle starts or stops, so every tool change... all day long.
This is what bothers me. Sure, it looks like it can do it. But would you treat a machine like this for years on end?
I wouldn't.

You owe me a full keg. You're that wrong. :D
Give it 20 years, and you'll owe me two cold sodas.
;)

Most high production machinery gets retired in sever years or less.
Even if all this holds true, I just can't see slammin' a machine's spindle around like that.
 
Back to some of the original questions. Brother user here but in my case I do tap lots of M3x0.5 holes. I spent some time looking at them under the microscope etc. This doesn't do much. I found initially that my threads were the weak point. I checked my hole sizes and they were over some. I got a better drill bit and spent some time reducing runout on it and got the hole size righ. Then I found that the weak point became the screw- standard socket head cap screw. Now my quality test for these holes is to put a new screw in a part and tighten with a new allen wrench it till something breaks. If it's not the threads i'm happy.

Op asked a lot of questions on speeds etc. I suggest making some simple little test parts with 10 or so tapped holes. Run it all maxed out and tweak your process there instead on good parts as I did. Now after doing what I said above initially after thousands of holes on the same tap and drill it's very predictable. I tap these holes at 4000rpm. I suppose I could go to 6000 rpm with good results but it works here well and I'll just leave it at that.

Also, regarding milling with a 30 taper machine, there has been a lot of discussion on here on shortening up the cutter as much as possible. Spend some time reading these posts.
 
This is what bothers me. Sure, it looks like it can do it. But would you treat a machine like this for years on end?
I wouldn't.
My point was, I think Brother very much knows what they are doing. I'm sure they have appropriate margin built into the design. Mine paid for itself handily. If it dies tomorrow, I'll go buy another. Maybe Speedios and Robos have a shorter lifespan (doesn't seem apparent to me)? But if they are 2x faster than a Haas, don't you get to pro-rate it?

I use YG combo taps on everything but hardened steel and plastic. They have some coating, but do fine in AL. I get several hundreds of holes before I get skeptical and change it out. I really hope the OP doesn't need a Tapmatic head. You'd think a "drill/tap" machine can do without.

ex:

YG1 T5203C | M3 X 0.5 Spiral Flute HSS-Ex Combo
Tap 3 Flute D3 TiCN Coated Bright Finish
 
Does anybody like to make use of combo drill/tap tools? Are they available with thread forming taps?
Saving pockets in the limited ATC on some of these machines or being able to run redundant tooling sounds nice.
 
My point was, I think Brother very much knows what they are doing. I'm sure they have appropriate margin built into the design. Mine paid for itself handily. If it dies tomorrow, I'll go buy another. Maybe Speedios and Robos have a shorter lifespan (doesn't seem apparent to me)? But if they are 2x faster than a Haas, don't you get to pro-rate it?

I use YG combo taps on everything but hardened steel and plastic. They have some coating, but do fine in AL. I get several hundreds of holes before I get skeptical and change it out. I really hope the OP doesn't need a Tapmatic head. You'd think a "drill/tap" machine can do without.

ex:

YG1 T5203C | M3 X 0.5 Spiral Flute HSS-Ex Combo
Tap 3 Flute D3 TiCN Coated Bright Finish
It very well could be.
As far as taps go - I use either YG or Kennametal. The YG seems to do very well in some of the gummy materials like copper.
 
Does anybody like to make use of combo drill/tap tools? Are they available with thread forming taps?
Saving pockets in the limited ATC on some of these machines or being able to run redundant tooling sounds nice.
No. I would only do that if I had a machine that required me changing tools by hand, and had through holes in the part.
Best drill for Al IMHO is the 3 flute MA Ford 229 series. 150 degree point, runs fast in speed and feed, hole sizes are good too.
Also agree with those above suggesting form taps for OP. No chips to get out of holes. Get the right tap and it will go a looong time in 6061 with decent coolant. All you have to do is get the process under control.
Good luck!

ETA: drilling and tapping using Brother machines is indeed amazing. The HT machines stop so fast a ER32 collet nut can loosen if not properly tightened. When tapping 4mm holes in 6061 at 6K the meter doesn't overload/go into the read. Machine is super quiet too. I had Haas machines before, but they don't compare to Brother. Bought a new Super Mini Mill. After install was finished, the Haas guy told me "10K doesn't mean 10K all the time." Brother guy "let it rip. It's made for 7/24 operation. 10K means 10K." Once I had my first Brother machine I was sorry I hadn't purchased in the past. They really are that good.
 
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Does anybody like to make use of combo drill/tap tools? Are they available with thread forming taps?
Saving pockets in the limited ATC on some of these machines or being able to run redundant tooling sounds nice.
You wouldn't be able to make a combo drill-formtap, since the forming process displaces material to shrink the minor. Pulling the tool out would wipe out the minor crests of the thread.
 








 
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