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Tips on using a vise, stock pushed up when tightening

This is your problem.
Can you post a picture of this vise?

LOL!

Are they so hard to find, now, that we have to offshore the photos to an underfunded student of information technology somewhere in Italy?

Metalworking needs study TOO!

Learn more?

Make fewer errors.

Make fewer errors, derive greater benefit.

Sooner.

... and at lesser cost.

Our enterprises are so different?

Since when?

And just HOW?
 
Your English if fine for a Calabrese.

:D

You need to safely dispose of the scrap metel pretending to be a vise and the scrap metal pretending to be a mill and either.. find something less disappointing and more interesting to do with your life,

or... book a train to the NORTH of Italy, Milano, Torino, most anywhere in Lombardia .. along the Arno.. "etc., etc.

Because.. some of the finest machine tools this world has ever seen, and some of the of the best toolholding - vises included - were invented and manufactured right there.

IN ITALY!!!

You can NOT take "free advice" off the internet, shout it into the non-existent "ear" of a lump of badly designed and executed low-grade metal that it is:

your ROYAL wish and COMMAND that;

-- said alleged-vise "become" a Gerardi

-- the Milling Machine Shaped Oject morph itself into a Rambaudi.

You shall have to be more clever and subtle that that!

You might try offering them chocolate and sexual favours?

It will not work. They are what they are.

But it will surely keep you out of more expensive debauchery.

You even get to keep your ass. Well unless the scrap metal takes you UP on the perversions, anyway.

Seriously.

All that "pretend" crap is going to do is ruin tools, damage metal, raise risk of injury, and waste hours of your life you can never recover. The only thing it can teach you is bad habits and how to waste time at a higher cost than watching pigeon-shit petrify.

Find something REAL, not props for a cinema production, even if it is worn-out and broken.

Because "real" can be repaired, and more than just the one time.

But fake can never be fixed.

We do not even TALK about it:

Machinery Discussion Guidelines

HUH? What are you going off about?!?
 
Get real.

Kurt AngLock? Name-brand Vertical Mill? Mill-hand was born at night, but it wasn't LAST night?

Helps to have something to WORK WITH too, yah?

Vise-shaped-object HE has would prolly flick the high-seated block clear into the next village first tool-flute made contact with the enemy.

If it even waited for spindle power-on!

:(

It helped me get a 3ish" block square and parallel to .001" using and reasonably worn milnes miller and ratty abwood vice.
I found the video really useful.

EDIT:- Jeez Bill youre on form today, go to the corana virus thread and let off some steam :D
 
It helped me get a 3ish" block square and parallel to .001" using and reasonably worn milnes miller and ratty abwood vice.
I found the video really useful.

EDIT:- Jeez Bill youre on form today, go to the corana virus thread and let off some steam :D

LOL! Winding meself up, am I?

"Worn Milnes?

"Opening the kimono" then..

My "shop" -- automotive and carpentry/remodeling -heavy.. was in SUCH sorry shape after years of being near-as dammit BLIND .. then rising Lazurus-like from a craft work grave with the WONDERFUL cataract lenses that gave me 20/15 vision that...

The FIRST 4-Way TP base to enable an "arrived here BUCK NAKED!!" 10EE to get to where I could make-chip..

Was a used Royal that needed around 3/16" milled off of each side of a central rib of the base disk/riser ..to get the height atop the compound correct.

The only "mill" I had for it?

A Lowes Chicom-built... "Kobalt" .. carpenter's compound miter saw!

The "Z" axis? The miter saw's wingnut rabbeting/dado'ing "depth stop" (like HELL it was. needed ruber-bands to stay PUT off the vibration, woodchopper's carbide on hardened steel!).

Cleaned it up with files and abrasives. And of COURSE it is a good fit! VERY!

Then again.. not exactly my "first rodeo"..

And right there is Stefan's problem.
He's so new his eyes ain't even open yet!

Well.. we ALL were.. at one time....

... just not THIS time...

:D
 
Has anyone mentioned the round stock between the work piece and the movable jaw? I saw this in a University training video and have used it to advantage on my ancient Bridgeport vise. About 2" round works best for me. The round rolls a bit as the jaw rises and the work stays in place. At least it doesn't rise as much and makes it easier to beat the piece down until I can feel the parallels tighten up.
 
Find something REAL, not props for a cinema production, even if it is worn-out and broken.

Because "real" can be repaired, and more than just the one time.

But fake can never be fixed.

So very true about old quality. Usually it just needs a touch up with a stone, OR some machining to fix wear, then shimming or replacing some worn out parts.

A low quality chineese vise can be fixed, but with a lot of work, and depending on the quality, it may still get out of shape if it wasn't properly stress relieved. They can be made better, but you will need a surface grinder, and a lot of metrology time.
 
LOL!

Are they so hard to find, now, that we have to offshore the photos to an underfunded student of information technology somewhere in Italy?

Metalworking needs study TOO!

Learn more?

Make fewer errors.

Make fewer errors, derive greater benefit.

Sooner.

... and at lesser cost.

Our enterprises are so different?

Since when?

And just HOW?

In order to give this person the best advice, we need to know what he's working with. Maybe his definition of a machinist vise is just some shitty clapped out drill press vise?
You're making less sense than usual (and that saying a lot).
 
It pays well. VERY!

Piss-off one guy out of a thousand who will get TF off his one ASS and go beat your game? Humanity advances. 999 passengers drop a coin into his fare box and get to enjoy the ride.

Kiss a thousand asses?
Humanity degenerates. Everybody TRIES to collect. But NOBODY rides.

Darwinian thing.

I LIKE living in a world of better men than I.
Not worse.

Gives one hope for a healthier FUTURE! Happier, safer and more prosperous, even.

So I run what I f****g got.

All seven of 'em...

What are the five thinking styles? Understanding synthesists, idealists, pragmatists, analysts, and realists - Thriveworks

:D

Why do you think / assume I was referring to you?
 
WTF???

We should get MOUTH BREATHING LESSONS from you, next?

You DO have that shit written DOWN somewhere.. with an "exaggerated" sketch, "made some years ago"..yah?

Or is some poor sod on a rota to remind you to get your head out of rectal defilade and INHALE once in a while?

Now... given the above post as the rationale..?

Annnnnnnd:

Machinery Discussion Guidelines

Just whose ass do we have to kiss to get YOU to kindly take your own advice?

And motor off down the road?

Or even just honor PM's site rules?

Or is making long, foolish "look how DEFIANT I am!" posts just too damned addictive a habit to break ....without Hollywood re-hab and gender re-assignment surgery?

And a HABIT it surely is !!!:

OT: Why Was the Korean Fusion Thread Closed?

OT: A Good Discussion of Vitamin D and COVED-19

OT: Irritating Row of Buttons on Title Page Here

Just WHICH PART of your OWN statement:

"This forum is oriented to the professional machinists "

Was it you so badly MISSED on Korean Fusion, Vitamins, or hobbyists who wish cheap shit could be BULLSHAT into becoming gold if only by the addition of extra helpings of exponential ignorance?

If not also nuclear fusion. Or maybe only Vitamin pills?

An "irritating row of buttons" we can just Freaking DEAL WITH!

WTF???

He is not the one as needs "discouraged!"

Because HE may still be able to LEARN! Has even started on that.

YOU ARE!!!

Because YOU .. WILL NOT !!! And may.. never.

Refusniks! God must have loved them, or she would not have set Al Gore to inventing the internet!

All though I lost interest around chapter 3 or so.... At least it was coherent. I didnt need an interpreter....:crazy:
 
I used to use a dowel pin on the moveable jaw to get the back side and top perfectly perpendicular with a skim cut...flip 180 with the same side against the back and skim cut the other side to get it perfectly parallel (Within reason) then it should hold better without the pin...but a cheap vise is always a PITA
 
I used to use a dowel pin on the moveable jaw to get the back side and top perfectly perpendicular with a skim cut...flip 180 with the same side against the back and skim cut the other side to get it perfectly parallel (Within reason) then it should hold better without the pin...but a cheap vise is always a PITA

Simple-dumb exception of pre "hold down" survives.. Shaper vise an example.

KNOWING the movable jaw would TRY to tilt?

They simply made it really massive as to sliding contact.. and really looong.

So it could not tilt ... as MUCH!

Have a really shiddy vise?

Remove and "aside" it. That simple.

Task-specific workholding can be created to suit any need .. and do a better job.

Because one selects exactly what fits each specific need.. and no longer has to "fight" ... some far-away designer's general-purpose f**k-up... or "attempted blessing".

Horizontal mill-hand doesn't even associate no damned "vise" with his mill.

We have CLAMPS! And make as many more "clamps" and cousins as we see FIT to make. Right ON the mill, mostly. In the fullness of time? We accumulate a short TON of workholding gadgetry. A "general purpose vise" might not even be among that lot at all.

See monster many-unit CNC "tombstone" fixturing. It's an "industry"...long-since, already, "workholding" is.

A general-purpose "vise" is the vertical mill-lady's "vice"!

Sort of a "drug", is it?

They were actually MEANT to be "jawed, tooled, and augmented" actually. A component OF a solution. Not sole provider "as issued".

Get creative. Tool it or take it OFF .....as a brain-paralyzer.

Learn more. Make more. Grow faster and better.

Grin more often!

:D
 
If you put a workpiece high in a vise, then it will put a cantilever action on the vise jaws and stress them. This will cause the jaws to cock.

The typical reaction to the problem is to use bigger, stronger, tighter vises. No matter how big, strong, tight and perfect your vise is, if you put unequal forces on it, it will cock. The only question is by how much.

You can mostly avoid stress on a vise by placing the workpiece so that is below the screw. In other words, put the workpiece low in the vise. If this is not possible or desirable, then the same effect can be achieved by milling a separate block out of a material more malleable than that of the workpiece and placing this block below the workpiece as a cushion. For example, if you are milling steel, then you can use a cushion of soft brass or aluminum. If you are milling aluminum, then make the cushion out of delrin. The width of the cushion should be the width of the workpiece minus the width of the parallels + 0.001" or less. If it is difficult to get an exact grind on the cushion, then you can cheat it by adding soft jaws around the workpiece to take up slack.

The bottom line is that ideally you want the forces at any given point on the vise jaws to be as equal as possible.
 
If you put a workpiece high in a vise, then it will put a cantilever action on the vise jaws and stress them. This will cause the jaws to cock.

The typical reaction to the problem is to use bigger, stronger, tighter vises. No matter how big, strong, tight and perfect your vise is, if you put unequal forces on it, it will cock. The only question is by how much.

You can mostly avoid stress on a vise by placing the workpiece so that is below the screw. In other words, put the workpiece low in the vise. If this is not possible or desirable, then the same effect can be achieved by milling a separate block out of a material more malleable than that of the workpiece and placing this block below the workpiece as a cushion. For example, if you are milling steel, then you can use a cushion of soft brass or aluminum. If you are milling aluminum, then make the cushion out of delrin. The width of the cushion should be the width of the workpiece minus the width of the parallels + 0.001" or less. If it is difficult to get an exact grind on the cushion, then you can cheat it by adding soft jaws around the workpiece to take up slack.

The bottom line is that ideally you want the forces at any given point on the vise jaws to be as equal as possible.

whats the cushion for exactly?
 
Get a set of these: 54A Hold-Down

Lufkin's equivalent - found on eBay. Cheaper than I could be bothered to DIY.

Mill is to be of any use?

Workholding goods will in the fullness of time take up roughly the same cube as the knee does.

BFD.

The better the selection, the more and happier hours in yer life.

Less expensive than whiskey, wheels, watercraft, wings, or wimmin' too.

DAMHIKT!
 
Damn! Two pages of answers and haven't got an e-mail for notification; My bad for not activating them. Thanks everyone for the help and sorry if I didn't reply
Your English if fine for a Calabrese.
Thanks but I'm actually Siciliano, I guess we are famous in America after all those films. I hate the Nord Italy but yes they make nice vises; on the machine building side however I now that we are not doing as well as we used to. Still I can't understand how the hell machines made in the country of the greatest artists in history can be all so aesthetically ugly. However machining, and all related stuff, are non existing in the southern Italy.
I will trigger thermite a little: when I posted this thread I was an hobby guy and my milling machine was just a router I was using to learn (sorry). The vise was a cheap machinist vise like the blue one in photo. However I followed your suggestion even if I haven't read it yet back then. After a year of preparation now I own an Okuma VMC ( Genos M560) and two good Italian branded vises; not Gerardi but OML (IMG model). Still the part lifts so I guess all the tricks the other people suggested can still be useful. However my new vises are 5 axis stile vises so the lifting is also related to many other factors; this vises clamp only on 3,5 mm of material with carbide toothed inserts so the forces are unbalanced by design. I might try with the "similar size stock at the bottom" trick.
While being very versatile because they can be used for both single and double clamping while having a very large clamping range for the size, often I would prefer to have a normal vise with some pulldown effect. When I planned the shop I thought I would have had more need for multiple part workholding while in this first two months I'm actually receiving mostly single parts jobs. All internet is about "make parts fast" but I'm finding out it is more of a "make parts fast IF you have a part to make after the one you are machining now, otherwise just make the part in the least expensive and risky way". This is off topic however.

I hope soon to have the pleasure to try all your suggestions on a real high quality (non 5 axis) vise. Thanks again.
 

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All internet is about "make parts fast" but I'm finding out it is more of a "make parts fast IF you have a part to make after the one you are machining now, otherwise just make the part in the least expensive and risky way". This is off topic however.
Actually, not so off-topic ... seems like you've learned in two years what a whole lot of people still haven't. Making parts fast only matters if you have a whole lot of parts to make (and everything else that needs to go along with that). The business of manufacturing is a lot more complicated than just "make the parts as fast as possible".
 
Greetings,

I'm new to machining and I would like to have tips on how to solve a problem that I encountered recently.

I bought some parallels for my cheap machinist vise and I noticed that when I tighten the vise the stock is never in contact with the parallels. I was aware of this problem so I bought a soft hammer but I was surprised to see that no matter what the stock will never be firmly touching the parallels. At the very best there will be a single contact poi on just one of the 2 parallels. I tried to machine as flat as possible the surface that will be in contact with the parallels but nothing changed. I checked the parallelism of the parallels and the vise bed relative to a granite surface plate that the vise was sitting on and everything was in tolerance. I also checked parallelism with the machine axis and still in tolerance. I think that the problem is on the jaws or in the moving part of the vise. I also noticed that the sliding unit can easily be tilted by hand with a bit of pressure.

I saw that high-end vises have pull down mechanism so I guess this is a common problem and that's why I thought that maybe there are tips and tricks someone more experienced can share. I also tried to keep the stock down by having the spindle nose touching it (I have a hobby machine with a cheap spindle, I would have never done this with a real machine)and had no success.

Thanks and sorry for my english.
I had same problem with two vices that I built. I milled the movable jaw 1°out of square. The top of the jaw hits the work . Vices were screwless type. This solved the problem. I also have another vice that I bought for the mill, no problems with this one. Not a screwless type.
I have heard but never tried , place a half round piece against the work so the half round pushes against the work in the middle.
Try milling an aluminum. soft jaw 1° and replace or add to the moveable jaw to see if it works.
 
A piece of paper between the workpiece and top of the jaw will act as a pivot and help bed the workpiece down. If the workpiece base is 5mm below the jaw the paper should extend about a third below the jaw. My go to method is to tighten and bed down the workpiece in stages. Unless something is radically out of square this always works for me.
 








 
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