Turret Punches, If You Had To Do It All Over Again

[CDNpartsguy]

Long term reader but this is my first post.

I'd like to know about the turret punch lessons you had that you wished you had learnt earlier because the company I'm a part of is considering purchasing one.

We have an opportunity to buy an early 90's Amada Vipros 357 Queen. It appears to be in pretty good shape and comes with a tool grinder and bunch of material. The seller is extremely motivated (plant shutdown) and we can get the entire spread for about $6000 above the cost of the material. I realize it depends on condition but what are these machines worth?

The bulk of our market will be dimpled/perforated steps, louvred machine enclosures and custom safety guards in 14GA mild steel and .125 aluminum. Will we have any trouble dimpling or punch small louvres in those thicknesses of mild steel or aluminum?

 

[Garwood]

The machines are pretty bulletproof. I know of a 344 from the 70's that has supported 3-5 people for the past 30 years. I have seen one that was worn out though. I don't know what caused it, but it needed a lot of parts and Amada had everything in stock- $20k or so of parts a decade ago.

Indexing options are very important. You need to understand how many stations are indexable and if they are manual or auto indexing. This is a big deal. Tools like slotters can run all around a part if they can index. If they are fixed then you need multiples of the same tools set at different angles or you're going to nibble away with a small round punch.

Tooling is very important. It takes a lot of punch sets to do whatever comes through the door.

These machines are 30 tons. Your tonnage depends on your tool size and design. I really hope you know this stuff before you buy a CNC turret punch.

Value varies a lot. I was offered a pair of 90's 357's with lots of thick turret tooling for $15k last year. I did not buy them, but I thought that was a good deal for todays market. Same situation- Factory shut down/consolidated. During the 2008 recession Amada punches were regularly free or a grand or two maybe. They take up a lot of real estate if they aren't running and you don't fire these up to make one part.

I've never seen a shop use the Amada swing grinder to sharpen punches. They always use a surface grinder. I'm not sure why, but something to keep in mind. I can find out why, but I would speculate it has to do with the swing grinder being kind of cheesy and prone to mistakes. Swing grinders aren't worth shit either. They're a specialized tool and everyone with a turret punch has two of them they never use.

I've been in the shop with a 344 blanking 1" ID 3" OD washers from 1/4" A36. That's about the capacity of what these can do and you definitely won't have happy neighbors if you do that frequently.

 

[CDNpartsguy]

The machines are pretty bulletproof. I know of a 344 from the 70's that has supported 3-5 people for the past 30 years. I have seen one that was worn out though. I don't know what caused it, but it needed a lot of parts and Amada had everything in stock- $20k or so of parts a decade ago.

Indexing options are very important. You need to understand how many stations are indexable and if they are manual or auto indexing. This is a big deal. Tools like slotters can run all around a part if they can index. If they are fixed then you need multiples of the same tools set at different angles or you're going to nibble away with a small round punch.

Tooling is very important. It takes a lot of punch sets to do whatever comes through the door.

These machines are 30 tons. Your tonnage depends on your tool size and design. I really hope you know this stuff before you buy a CNC turret punch.

Value varies a lot. I was offered a pair of 90's 357's with lots of thick turret tooling for $15k last year. I did not buy them, but I thought that was a good deal for todays market. Same situation- Factory shut down/consolidated. During the 2008 recession Amada punches were regularly free or a grand or two maybe. They take up a lot of real estate if they aren't running and you don't fire these up to make one part.

I've never seen a shop use the Amada swing grinder to sharpen punches. They always use a surface grinder. I'm not sure why, but something to keep in mind. I can find out why, but I would speculate it has to do with the swing grinder being kind of cheesy and prone to mistakes. Swing grinders aren't worth shit either. They're a specialized tool and everyone with a turret punch has two of them they never use.

I've been in the shop with a 344 blanking 1" ID 3" OD washers from 1/4" A36. That's about the capacity of what these can do and you definitely won't have happy neighbors if you do that frequently.

Hey thanks for that info. It was more than valuable.

Are there easy ways to tell if tools are indexable or not? I also hear the terms "thick tooling" and "thin tooling". I have gathered that thick tooling is preferred but I'm not sure if I would know the difference (now I really revealed my ignorance).

One place I read it stated that dimpling requires a turret to have a die that backs off after each hit and another place implied that dimpling did not require that. Any comments on that?

 

[TKassoc]

If you aren't doing lots of angled edges having auto index isn't a deal breaker. I always left two 0.25" x 3.0" rooftop shear rectangles in my turret at 0deg and 90deg to save wear on the auto index stations. Thin turret is only the early Amada machines and was phased out well before the 90s. Turret holes on Amada machines do not have hardened bushings so once they wear you will tear up tools when you try to nibble.

A dimple tool will have a spring loaded stripper on the lower die or punch to clear the sheet depending on which direction you go.

Edit: I've owned two Strippit turrets that are both gone and replaced by a 4500W flatbed/tube fiber laser. So no, I wouldn't do it again. I just do the occasional louver or dimple by putting that die in my single station punch.