Van Norman History (currently owned by?)

[ps15]

I'm trying to compile as much info on Van Norman and their machines as I can. I have been saving discussions from PM to a text document and tagging the discussions for easy searching later.
At some point in 50-60s? Van Norman was owned by Universal American Corp.
At some point in the 60-70's Van Norman mills were being built by Atlantic Machine Tool Works.
I found a Department of Defense document from 1970 at which point Van Norman was owned by Gulf and Western Industries.
I believe Gulf and Western was acquired by Textron.
Repair Parts Inc was providing OEM parts up to 2012-2015?

Does anyone know anything about these companies and the actual dates of ownership? Who owns Van Norman now? I am trying to track down actual prints or technical data packages for VN's machinery. It has to be out there somewhere.

Is it possible that Hardinge owns VN? They bought Bridgeport from Textron (unless I'm mistaken). They currently manufacture VN tool holders...just a theory?

Please let me know any relevant information so I can continue searching for "lost" information.
Thanks for your time

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

There is a company using the Van Norman name today, no idea if it is in any way related to the old Van Norman, only product I've seen was a flywheel grinder, and I'm not confusing it with WVN.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/264626998026?hash=item3d9cff8b0a:g:bZcAAOSwpz9ePhSN

 

[SVE Performance]

Bridgeport became it's own company (employee owned ) before being purchased by Hardinge.

 

[FamilyTradition]

Van Norman Machine Tool Co. - History | VintageMachinery.org

The Vintage Machinery website seems to be able to lead us to the current owners. The remnants of VN were bought and sold a few times and ended up as a part of this company: https://irontite.com/van-norman

As dalmatiangirl61 pointed out, it seems that they only market a flywheel grinder under the Van Norman name these days.

I have a Van Norman No. 0 in pieces in my parents basement, unfortunately at the rate I'm going with it I won't be making chips with it anytime soon...

 

[sfriedberg]

I was in contact with someone who purchased a bunch of stuff from Repair Parts before RP dropped the VN support. They claimed that all the cabinets full of prints were all simply pitched in a dumpster and trashed.

"It has to be out there somewhere." Unfortunately, not true. It is very, very common for all that stuff to be lost long before the machines die.

 

[FamilyTradition]

I was in contact with someone who purchased a bunch of stuff from Repair Parts before RP dropped the VN support. They claimed that all the cabinets full of prints were all simply pitched in a dumpster and trashed.

"It has to be out there somewhere." Unfortunately, not true. It is very, very common for all that stuff to be lost long before the machines die.

I wouldn't doubt that - at the time they probably did not know they were throwing away a piece of history (they saw it as just a pile of sh*t )

Probably the only documents left are patents that the Van Norman brothers and their associates filed. Those are accessible online (listing at the VintageMachinery website's page for VN)

 

[reggie_obe]

I was in contact with someone who purchased a bunch of stuff from Repair Parts before RP dropped the VN support. They claimed that all the cabinets full of prints were all simply pitched in a dumpster and trashed.

"It has to be out there somewhere." Unfortunately, not true. It is very, very common for all that stuff to be lost long before the machines die.

I thought I had read that one of the owners of RPI croaked and the remaining owner auctioned off the company assets. Cabinets containing original blueprints were emptied and the cabinets sold.

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

The remnants of VN were bought and sold a few times and ended up as a part of this company: https://irontite.com/van-norman

Thanks for finding that, my quick search for the website did not show that, I was wondering if they had already gone under. I saw one of their machines a few years back, pretty sure its made by the same company that makes the WVN flywheel grinder, or its a straight copy? My suspicion at the time was it was an ex WVN employee that knew where they sourced machines, and maybe since the VN name had been abandoned they just ran with it, interesting to see that it is actually Irontite. It does seem odd that they are only marketing 2 machines under the VN name? Anyone know the actual source of the WVN or VN FG machines?

 

[sfriedberg]

The VN name got disconnected from milling machines quite a long time ago, but stayed associated with automotive machining (boring bars, block surfacers, etc). I think the IP for the two branches was cleanly separated, such that RPI had nothing to do with the automotive machine tool line. As I don't do engine work, I haven't paid much attention to the automotive line and don't know how much is a continuation of the original VN company. The Irontite connection is new to me.

I thought I had read that one of the owners of RPI croaked and the remaining owner auctioned off the company assets. Cabinets containing original blueprints were emptied and the cabinets sold.

Yes, that's a more accurate statement than what I said earlier. At the time, I was a bit distracted. I had bought a nice, clean universal subhead for the larger VN machines from the folks who bought stuff at the RPI acution. When it arrived, it was clear that the head had been stripped of all internal parts except the spindle. It had obviously been kept as a parts donor at RPI, and the folks I bought from had no clue. In coordinating the return to seller, I heard a little bit about the demise of RPI and what happened to the VN engineering and sales data.

 

[ps15]

I was in contact with someone who purchased a bunch of stuff from Repair Parts before RP dropped the VN support. They claimed that all the cabinets full of prints were all simply pitched in a dumpster and trashed.

I also read this somewhere. However I think we all know that companies keep old documents around forever. My shop has prints on file that we haven't made in 40 years. I think somewhere down the line someone had to make photocopies of all this stuff, but who has them?
Someone from RPI or Atlantic Machine might have something laying around?

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

The VN name got disconnected from milling machines quite a long time ago, but stayed associated with automotive machining (boring bars, block surfacers, etc). I think the IP for the two branches was cleanly separated, such that RPI had nothing to do with the automotive machine tool line. As I don't do engine work, I haven't paid much attention to the automotive line and don't know how much is a continuation of the original VN company. The Irontite connection is new to me.

I could be wrong, but pretty sure the automotive line died 30-40? years ago, back in the late 80's anything with the VN name was already OLD. Everyone knew the name because there was so much of it around, so I was rather surprised to see the brand new FG with the VN name on it.

OP, if you can get the story from Irontite I would be interested in hearing it.

 

[ps15]

I could be wrong, but pretty sure the automotive line died 30-40? years ago, back in the late 80's anything with the VN name was already OLD. Everyone knew the name because there was so much of it around, so I was rather surprised to see the brand new FG with the VN name on it.

OP, if you can get the story from Irontite I would be interested in hearing it.

I will probably email them. I already went through a list of distributors from and old catalog and found 2 of them were still in business. I emailed them some questions but never heard back.
Do you think VN made all the gears for their machines? I hear the hypoid gear for a VN12 is not a standard gear. If they were made by Gleason or someone else they might have the prints for the gears at least. Worth looking into?

 

[Ohio Mike]

As noted the product lines were split and the grinders and boring went one way and Atlantic got the milliing machines. Most recently Repair Parts owned the technical drawings and documentation for the milling machines. I talked to someone there a few years before they closed down and they were very helpful. While I wasn't able to make it to the auction but I do distinctly remember the sale inventory listing cabinets with all the existing documentation in them along with thousands of pounds of existing repair parts and accessories.

Edit: Yep it was Myron Bowling...
VAN NORMAN PRODUCT LINE VAN NORMAN Product Line Including Milling Machine Parts, Prints, Documentation Including (6) Racks of Spindles, Gears, Shafts, Arbors, Bush- ings, Dividing Heads, Support Arms, Gear Boxes, Bearings, Cardex Files, (64) Drawers of Prints & Schematics, (9) 4-Drawer File Cabinets of Manuals & Brochures

https://www.myronbowling.com/_filelib/FileCabinet/2015_FLYERS/Repair_Parts_Flyer-lores.pdf

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Edit: Yep it was Myron Bowling...
VAN NORMAN PRODUCT LINE VAN NORMAN Product Line Including Milling Machine Parts, Prints, Documentation Including (6) Racks of Spindles, Gears, Shafts, Arbors, Bush- ings, Dividing Heads, Support Arms, Gear Boxes, Bearings, Cardex Files, (64) Drawers of Prints & Schematics, (9) 4-Drawer File Cabinets of Manuals & Brochures

https://www.myronbowling.com/_filelib/FileCabinet/2015_FLYERS/Repair_Parts_Flyer-lores.pdf

What year was that? Dang it, I've been wanting to buy an old company like that

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Do you think VN made all the gears for their machines? I hear the hypoid gear for a VN12 is not a standard gear. If they were made by Gleason or someone else they might have the prints for the gears at least. Worth looking into?

No idea. I needed a couple gears for my VN mill, had to go with a close match of off the shelf gears.

 

[dkmc]

I called Atlantic in the early '80's when I got my No2 Med. Universal. Talked to a guy in engineering, he mailed me several blueprints of the overarm support and the vertical head attachment. Nice folks. Probably long gone?

 

[Ohio Mike]

What year was that? Dang it, I've been wanting to buy an old company like that

July 2015

 

[Ohio Mike]

I called Atlantic in the early '80's when I got my No2 Med. Universal. Talked to a guy in engineering, he mailed me several blueprints of the overarm support and the vertical head attachment. Nice folks. Probably long gone?

I assume RPI aquired Van Norman from Atlantic as they also did rebuilds of Atlantic Jig Bore machines. The RPI auction was July 2015.

 

[Mebfab]

The plant was at 3640 Main st in Springfield Mass. Next to the Bosch plant where my grandmother spent WW2 doing her part. It sat empty for as long as I can remember. It was taken over and rehabbed into a medical facility. Better then the wrecking ball I guess. It was done only a few years ago. Might be able to track down the architects who oversaw it and get some info.

Also https://springfieldmuseums.org/abou...history/springfield-history-library-archives/

 

[FamilyTradition]

That "Wayback Machine" website is a wonder. I was browsing through the Wikipedia and one of the references on the article was to a website belonging to a fellow called John M. Kasunich. It is no longer in service but the archive software saved this part of his website on the Van Norman machines: https://web.archive.org/web/20160320155341/http://jmkasunich.com/vannorman/VN_Home.htm

I don't know if he had anything like blueprints on there, but there is some technical data from a range of the machines that they produced.