VFD for Hardinge DSM-59

[Ronno6]

A Hardinge DSM-59 followed me home yesterday.
Unloaded it and set it in place.
Time for power.
The Hardinge is 220v 3 phase 1 HP, and I have 220v 1 phase power.
I need to acquire a VFD.
Do I just need a drive for 1hp?
The lathe has a power cord connected.
Will connecting to the VFD be a matter of removing the plug, terminating the wires and connecting to the VFD ?

 

[rons]

Will connecting to the VFD be a matter of removing the plug, terminating the wires and connecting to the VFD ?

No.
There are contacts that open and close between the plug and the motor. The VFD must be directly connected to your motor.
Then you may not need anything in your control cabinet. Keep everything, you might need a RPC one day when the VFD is out.

I suggest a 2Hp or more VFD. There price difference is so small in that hp range. Get a 5 Hp VFD.
All you may need is a 1.5 to 2 Hp VFD. A 5 Hp will give you components that won't be stressed to their extreme ends.

 

[Ronno6]

I have a RPC that was originally connected to a 5hp compressor.
It cost me too much HP to operate the compressor at high pressures, having given up 1/3 of tge 5hp motor.
Would I still lose 1/3 of the Hardinge's 1hp motor?

If I connect the VFD directly yo the motor, will I lose the speed and direction controls of the Hardinge?

 

[rons]

"Would I still lose 1/3 of the Hardinge's 1hp motor?"
???
Use a 5 Hp RPC. That is normal with a lot of folks.

Your controls would be on the VFD or any kind of external switch or speed knob.

 

[Ronno6]

As I do not yet have a VFD, can I use the RPC and retain the stock lever/brake functions?
Will I lose HP ?

 

[L Vanice]

Early DSM-59 lathes have a spindle motor and may have a coolant pump motor. Later lathes will also have a variable spindle speed control motor. In either case, the OEM spindle motor will be a 2-speed type. A rotary phase converter is always the least complex way to power these lathes. The RPC just hooks up to the lathe's power cord. You do have to be sure you connect the three hot wires so the spindle turns forward when the lathe direction lever is in the forward position and the odd leg does not go to the lathe's control transformer. Those things just have to be done correctly once and then forgotten.

If you use a VFD to power the spindle motor, connect it so it only powers the high speed windings of the motor. The original two levers on the bed that do Fwd-Brake-Rev and Low-Stop-High will not work unless you figure out how to rewire their switches to run the VFD control terminals. If you have a coolant pump or speed control motor, they will need a separate power source. It gets complicated.

Larry

 

[car2]

As I do not yet have a VFD, can I use the RPC and retain the stock lever/brake functions?
Will I lose HP ?

If your electricals have not been tampered with, the RPC is plug and play, and is the easiest, (and will not lose HP). Hook up the RPC to the input (make sure that the "manufactured" leg does not go to the 115 volt output control-transformer in the box (I assume it has a 115 volt transformer for the controls like the HLV's)), check rotation direction (do not adjust speed if rotating in wrong direction), flip wires to correct rotation if needed. Cheers

 

[Ronno6]

I think what I had was a static phase conteoller....dunno where it even is at present.
I may seek an RPC.......

Would this do the trick?

3HP Rotary Phase Converter Quick Build Kit | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3HP Rotary Phase Converter Quick Build Kit at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

 

[rons]

I think what I had was a static phase conteoller....dunno where it even is at present.
I may seek an RPC.......

Would this do the trick?

3HP Rotary Phase Converter Quick Build Kit | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 3HP Rotary Phase Converter Quick Build Kit at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

No thanks for that ebay stuff.

 

[Ronno6]

More like this??

2 HP Rotary Phase Converter - Single Phase to Three Phase Converter

The 2 HP Rotary Phase Converter for sale comes with a generator and idler that features a cast iron frame and corrosion resistant hardware.

www.phoenixphaseconverters.com

 

[pan60]

guys if the machine will run off a RPC why would it not run off the VFD?
is the concern not running the VFD at the proper frequency and burning up other componats?
thanks guys!

 

[Ronno6]

Looks like we lost traction.....

 

[pan60]

ron give a little time its Sunday
does the lathe have multip volatge requirments.
is everything three phase in the machine?
do you have a coolant pump if so see what it is.
when you got that machine was it under power?
if so did you look or know if there was any power supply other than the three phase?
also seems i recall the issue is not in running the machine but the interuption from the hish speed winding to the low that can cause issue with the VFD

post a pic of the controle plate it should possable say what the volatge is as well as the controle voltage
the guys around here know what they are saying for the most part i am sure they will be able to offer good advice.

 

[car2]

guys if the machine will run off a RPC why would it not run off the VFD?
is the concern not running the VFD at the proper frequency and burning up other componats?
thanks guys!

The issue, with the VFD is as stated above, is that a)there are 115 volt single-phase controls, b) there are THREE 3-phase motors (spindle, speed control, and pump)--a VFD is not compatible with that. A single VFD can be hooked directly up to a single motor, no control circuits in between, and no multiple motors. I suppose a static phase converter will work, but haven't used those and don't know much of anything about them, as larger ones are pretty pricy.

Ronno, that RPC looks OK. One consideration is if you want to run bigger tools, if you want to get a larger one (if not that one is plenty large). I have a "15 HP" RPC from American Rotary that has worked fine for 10+ years, Hardinge Lathe, TM Mill, Bridgeports, wood-lathe, thickness-sander etc. It has no problem running two tools at a time. The biggest thing I have is the sander which has a 5hp motor. It has a 5hp Baldor idler which is very quiet, and I have it tucked under a stairwell bolted to a piece of plywood on a rubber pad.

 

[sfriedberg]

As I do not yet have a VFD, can I use the RPC and retain the stock lever/brake functions?

Yes. The output of the RPC looks just like three-phase power, because it is.

Will I lose HP ?

No, the Hardinge motor will run full load, provided the RPC is big enough to feed it. 5HP RPC is big enough.

 

[Ronno6]

If I can find it, I have a 5hp 3ph motor that could serve as an idler..... that would leave
me needing to purchase a controller. I am uncertain about the start procedure,tho. Maybe the control provides the starting function? i can't see myself pull starting my RPC idler..... Could I wire the idler thru a straight converter to get it up to speed, then switch to the RPC control?? So much to discover......

 

[rons]

If I can find it, I have a 5hp 3ph motor that could serve as an idler..... that would leave
me needing to purchase a controller. I am uncertain about the start procedure,tho. Maybe the control provides the starting function? i can't see myself pull starting my RPC idler..... Could I wire the idler thru a straight converter to get it up to speed, then switch to the RPC control?? So much to discover......

A controller would be called a contact switch with three contacts.

You can just connect the 5Hp idler as shown without any capacitors and rope start it.
Later you can add push buttons for starting and stopping.

 

[Ronno6]

Basically an RPC minus the motor. for example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/3921680000...VFIhXpIDdwV/jlJfWdDeGxwQ==|tkp:Bk9SR5qs4ozSYQ

 

[pan60]

The issue, with the VFD is as stated above, is that a)there are 115 volt single-phase controls, b) there are THREE 3-phase motors (spindle, speed control, and pump)--a VFD is not compatible with that.

so you cant grab a leg off the VFD for the 115?
so he will have to run a RPC ( what i run in my shop ) or isolate the 115v circits and run them seperate?

 

[Ronno6]

car2 I only have the Hardinge that needs 3 phase. I changed the motor on my compressor to single phase several years ago...... I still have the old 3ph, motor from it (somewhere) and may be able to use it as the idler for an RPC........