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Wanting to get into CNC and exploring options.

I'm pretty sure older Brothers still have pretty good parts availability.
And they can be had at very attractive prices. Just know, that is because they have been "fully depreciated" (if you know what I mean).
Are you good at fixing stuff? You will need to be if you go the used route. Do you mind getting dirty? Old CNC's look clean on the outside. They are anything but clean when wrenching time comes!
And, almost anything is better than a tormach. A haas mini-mill would be a good starter. But, they hold their value "TOO" well.
haha! This reply made me chuckle with the realism. Something tells me you have gone down the used route!

Yes, I am good at fixing things. Replacing physical parts shouldnt be an issue for me. As I said in another reply, its the electronics that I am ignorant on.

I mean, at the end of the day, what better way to get to know a machine than ripping it down to nothing??? Get what I mean 😉😉

But, I also dont want to choose the machine that when I rip apart, the parts are hard to source or extremely pricey. As you said, HAAS machines hold their value "TOO" well. And I appreciate the quotes on that because TOO well can be very subjective...depending on the intent/business of the machine.
 
Looking on ebay at machines that have sold, I have seen some machines go for around $6k that were between 1995-2000 models. That being said, the ads would say "functioning" or "ran until pulled"...but are there any 'usual' wear items from machines this old? Are the electronics something to pay attention to? I'm pretty mechanically inclined and so restoring the physical/mechanical parts shouldnt be an issue. But since I have never messed with these machines, I know that I know nothing about the electronics. Are some more reliable than others?
It's always good to inspect a machine under power if possible but I've bought a few machines sight unseen (mostly from members here) and so far it's worked out. Who you buy it from matters in that case. Buy direct from the owner and not from a dealer and you tend to get a better deal and often they will straight up tell you if anything is wrong with it or any quirks it might have. I try to avoid dealers but if I had to buy from one I'd go over it carefully under power, or pay someone to do it if I was unable.
 
There are so many threads on this......... :rolleyes5: .......not being a smart butt, but do a search with your topic...tons of info already discussed
There is another thread going on right now.........
Right to the quick:
You get a "real" machine you have stepped into a whole new world.
1 Parts, repairs can be very expensive.
2 If you get one ,you WILL be fixing something, nothing used is 100% or stays that way.
3 You better have a good grip on your ability to fix one, strong electrical is a must.
4 Stay away from "odd" brands
5 You aint going to move it around with a harbor freight jack, rigging costs money.
......rest of it you can find in posted threads........
 
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A Haas Mini-Mill or CM-1 (or the older OM-2) will run on single phase 220 volt. They're likely out of your budget though, unless you get an old one at a great price.
 
Nature Boy,
Post your location in your profile. It will help people help you.
People will put you on to a good independent tech in your area, and that will be a major benefit !
Bob
 
Getting a cnc mill without a tool changer is an awful idea. I realize you don't know this yet, but we do. An even worse idea would be to get one without an enclosure.

My first vmc is a Fadal. They garner lots of negative attention for not being superb Japanese iron, but they're a great stepping stone. Machines are cheap, parts are cheap and easy to find, the control is easy to learn and they're about as well documented as a Chevy small block. Ya, they're slower than a Robodrill and not as accurate as an Okuma but they'll get you in the game. In 3 years I've changed a few parts (spindle drive, encoder, power supply) but I've also made about $50k with it as a side job where it may go unpowered for a month.

Whatever you do, budget another 10-15k for tooling, rigging, electrical and other miscellaneous items.
 
I've never seen a Tormach in person. But I can see that it'd be a good option for the OP's description of the intended use for the machine.

It'd fit back in the corner of a garage. Relatively small compared to a Fadal. The OP could probably move it himself. My local CL usually has listings for bargain, production level CNC machines that would likely cost a small fortune to move. A year ago I had a rigger move a CNC 80 feet, out of one building into another $1700!!!! Took them all of 20 minutes. I would've done it myself except for the cracked, loose concrete in the access ramps to both building.

This idea that old machines can be fixed easily doesn't jive with my experience, especially if the problems are with the control.

He doesn't expect to make money with the machine. He doesn't need a tool changer. For hobby use I wouldn't mind having a Tormach at home (I've owned 8 CNC machines in the business over the years).

I kinda regret I didn't jump on a newish Tormach 60 miles away for $12K with 4th and tons of tooling.
 
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I've never seen a Tormach in person. But I can see that it'd be a good option for the OP's description of the intended use for the machine.

I totally agree with this.

My hobbies consist of cars and motorcycles, and making things for them when I feel I can do it better than odd the shelf parts, or for a drastically cheaper price.

Tormach fits the bill. The purpose of a hobby is to fill the time. Machined parts are only cheaper when it's a hobby. The second you put a price tag on your time, it becomes work and those parts are no longer cheaper than buying them off the shelf.

Why do people get all up in arms when someone wants to buy a Tormach? They're fine for the hobbyist.

Besides, for those who insist that it's the wrong machine for anybody, why do you care? Do you think anybody even remotely interested in machining should do whatever it takes to buy a used VMC and eventually become YOUR competitor?
 
Why do people get all up in arms when someone wants to buy a Tormach? They're fine for the hobbyist.

Besides, for those who insist that it's the wrong machine for anybody, why do you care? Do you think anybody even remotely interested in machining should do whatever it takes to buy a used VMC and eventually become YOUR competitor?
I care because I don't want someone to spend $30k on a boat anchor. I've seen a Tormach trying to take baby cuts in aluminum (.100" axial, .100" radial, with a 1/2" cutter) and it was chattering and screeching like a banshee. I tried to sub out a simple plastic part to its owner, and he couldn't hold a .005" tolerance. I had to buy new material and remake them all myself. And from what I've heard, if you have a problem with your brand new Tormach, it's 100% on you to diagnose and troubleshoot; they will not under any circumstances send someone out to fix it. If any actual Tormach owners want to correct me, please do.

If you have $30k to spend on a CNC, you're miles ahead getting a used Haas Mini-Mill.
 
Wow :willy_nilly:
Just never went to the website and looked at the machines. Really nothing more than a glorified mill/drill machine that was popular in the 90's:eek:
Then you have to put it together yourself...lol
Makes no difference to the Op, the biggest one won't even get close to his parts size anyway.
I now understand the comments about them, once you have seen /own a real VMC those are just a joke for any real work.
But , I can see Harry Homeowner drooling all over them.......:D
 
I've never seen a Tormach in person. But I can see that it'd be a good option for the OP's description of the intended use for the machine.

It'd fit back in the corner of a garage. Relatively small compared to a Fadal. The OP could probably move it himself. My local CL usually has listings for bargain, production level CNC machines that would likely cost a small fortune to move. A year ago I had a rigger move a CNC 80 feet, out of one building into another $1700!!!! Took them all of 20 minutes. I would've done it myself except for the cracked, loose concrete in the access ramps to both building.

This idea that old machines can be fixed easily doesn't jive with my experience, especially if the problems are with the control.

He doesn't expect to make money with the machine. He doesn't need a tool changer. For hobby use I wouldn't mind having a Tormach at home (I've owned 8 CNC machines in the business over the years).

I kinda regret I didn't jump on a newish Tormach 60 miles away for $12K with 4th and tons of tooling.

What cnc's did you own that helped you form such an odd opinion?
 
I bought a brand new tormach 1100mx with all of the options when I started my shop up a year ago. Worse decision I ever made. Z-axis ball screw snapped after 3 weeks and after fighting with tormach for 2 months, they finally agreed to refund the machine but I had to drive it back to their facility cross country( was not refunded for shipping). The ball screw was just the problem that finished it off, it had a handful of other problems out of the box such as a bad servo motor, drawbar issues, etc.I will say though that WHEN it was working, it made pretty decent parts. I ended up finding a deal on a used super mini mill and It’s been great ever since. I’ve heard of Syil, I don’t know anything about them, but they have to be better than tormach…
 
A CNC knee mill could make a good hobby machine. There's a bunch of them on eBay for $3-5K, easy to work on, can be run manually, can likely be converted with a VFD to run single phase, large work envelope for the foot print. There's a whole slew of downsides (no enclosure, no tool changer, limited RPM, etc) but for a hobby it should be fine.
 








 
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