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Way WAY OT...time to buy a new car...recommendations?

Taking you behind the woodshed is getting to be exhausting.

From the CARB website, in its entirety here.

Highlights for you, written by a person who is caught up in feelings and platitudes instead of reality.

Plug-in hybrid, full battery-electric and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles count toward an automaker’s requirement. PHEVs must have an all-electric range of at least 50 miles under real-world driving conditions. In addition, automakers will be allowed to meet no more than 20% of their overall ZEV requirement with PHEVs.

So people in the cities will have PHEVs shoved down their throats because they don't want to have the limitations. What do the people not in the metro areas buy when PHEVs have sold their quota and the premium pricing they'll fetch prices them out of the market?

Also: I love when people codify what amounts to engineering requirements when they don't know the first damned thing about the subject. Oh we'd like transparent aluminum that is lighter than current aluminum but, maintains the strength of all current known alloys:

By model year 2030, the rules require the vehicle to maintain at least 80% of electric range for 10 years or 150,000 miles. (Phased in from 70% for 2026 through 2029 model year vehicles.) By model year 2031, individual vehicle battery packs are warranted to maintain 75% of their energy for eight years or 100,000 miles. (Phased in from 70% for 2026 through 2030 model years.) ZEV powertrain components are warranted for at least three years or 50,000 miles.

Oh, and how will we pay for all of this? I'll bulletize their points for your easy consumption. If you want to argue, the full text is linked above.
  • Governor Newsom proposed, and the Legislature has approved, $2.7 billion in fiscal year 2022-23,
  • and $3.9 billion over three years, for investment in ZEV adoption, as well as clean mobility options for California’s most environmentally and economically burdened communities.
  • Clean Cars 4 All provides up to $9,500 to low-income drivers who scrap their older vehicles and want to purchase something that runs cleaner.
  • The Clean Vehicle Rebate Project (CVRP) provides up to $7,000 for income-qualified drivers to buy or lease a ZEV.
  • The Clean Vehicle Assistance Program provides low-income car buyers with special financing and up to $5,000 in down-payment assistance.
  • The Governor’s ZEV budget includes $400 million over three years for the statewide expansion of Clean Cars 4 All and for a suite of clean transportation equity projects. The budget also includes $525 million for the Clean Vehicles Rebate Project (CVRP). In addition, there is $300 million for more charging infrastructure, especially for those consumers who may not have a garage where they can charge their EV.
The state is broke. Broke broke. Where's all that money going to come from? Drooling morons get upset at the big bad capitalists and all the rich boogymen who supposedly don't pay their fair share. Then the same morons vote in bond measures and tax increases on themselves. Whose money do they think is being given away in those programs?
You have made no rational point.
You insult people and deny science
You make false statements
You post one thing and claim later you posted differently
This is taking me out to the woodshed?

you disagree with the policy

Ok,fine
There are rational reasons to disagree with any policy
You have failed to come up with any
 
The real-life name of the rat-racer conversing with Bronson is Stu Klitsner.
Hang in there, David :)

gustafson said:
You have made no rational point.
Beg to differ; his point as I understand it was that newsome is an idiot whose policies are too inflexible to account for many people's situation. Which seems pretty realistic, to me.
 
Hang in there, David :)


Beg to differ; his point as I understand it was that newsome is an idiot whose policies are too inflexible to account for many people's situation. Which seems pretty realistic, to me.
yet offer no rational point yourself....
Newsom may or may not be an idiot.
Vote him out if you live there
 
yet offer no rational point yourself....
What part of "these draconian rules are not realistic for people living where distances are large ?" is too difficult for you ?

Newsom may or may not be an idiot.
Vote him out if you live there
You seem to live in a fantasyland, where you do not understand the actual operation of 'democracy'.
 
Hang in there, David :)
George said:
Was
Lonny said:
he
Eugene said:
in
Norville said:
Bullitt
Jr. said:
too?

Thank you for the question! There is so much interest!
Yes. Our friend, the late Stu Klitsner, had a part in the Steve McQueen (aka Harvey Mushman) movie Bullitt.
 
Last edited:
What part of "these draconian rules are not realistic for people living where distances are large ?" is too difficult for you ?
So, this is false, what else do you have? Plug in hybrids never have to plug in and can drive however long you wish sipping dino juice
You seem to live in a fantasyland, where you do not understand the actual operation of 'democracy'.
Uhh, no that would be you
Democracy is where you vote and when you lose you get on with your life
 
Meanwhile, in China, in Krasnovia, in India,:
Never been to krasnovia or india but china, new cars get safety and smog inspection every three years. After ten years old, it's every year. Every time I do a mental count, I come up with 25 to 40% electric. Do for yourself. Blue plates gasoline, green electric.

Every year the proportion shifts towards 'lectric partly because it's way cheaper.

IMG_6185.jpg

gustafson said:
Democracy is where you vote and when you lose you get on with your life
Not any more.

But the point you missed was, "democracy" in the US is a case of being able to choose between two buffoons, presented to you by the establishment. There is no "I want the office to remain vacant if this is all you got" option. You get tweedledee or tweedledum. Period.
 
.
Lots of people drive old vehicles.
2007 Caravan 318k

If it Had Been electric, it wouldn't exist anymore.

There's every kind of ancient implement on the farm, back to a cletrack. It all works.
Except the two electric trucks. Batteries bad.

Electric is going to be a war on poor people.

Mrs. Henry Ford drove a Detroit Electric- All women and Doctors did, you don't want to crank start a car when you're finely dressed.

We tried electric already.
We tried Steam already.

We went to gas,
only gov't force can make us go back

 
.
Lots of people drive old vehicles.
2007 Caravan 318k

If it Had Been electric, it wouldn't exist anymore.
Baloney
First, the majority of Dodge Caravans never make it to 318k
Second you are totally making up the EV lifespan

You want to argue that we don't know how long a 17 year old EV will last, sure, valid argument since there are few out there, but there is little evidence that they will perform poorly compared to ICE cars
 
Never been to krasnovia or india but china, new cars get safety and smog inspection every three years. After ten years old, it's every year. Every time I do a mental count, I come up with 25 to 40% electric. Do for yourself. Blue plates gasoline, green electric.

Every year the proportion shifts towards 'lectric partly because it's way cheaper.

View attachment 442019


Not any more.

But the point you missed was, "democracy" in the US is a case of being able to choose between two buffoons, presented to you by the establishment. There is no "I want the office to remain vacant if this is all you got" option. You get tweedledee or tweedledum. Period.
Yawn
your worship of Communism and no illusion of choice is duly noted
 
Never been to krasnovia or india but china, new cars get safety and smog inspection every three years. After ten years old, it's every year. Every time I do a mental count, I come up with 25 to 40% electric. Do for yourself. Blue plates gasoline, green electric.

Every year the proportion shifts towards 'lectric partly because it's way cheaper.
.
India is the cleanest place anyone can ever go :rolleyes:

China is the second cleanest.

All because their emissions standards are the tops.
.
 
Baloney
First, the majority of Dodge Caravans never make it to 318k
Second you are totally making up the EV lifespan

You want to argue that we don't know how long a 17 year old EV will last, sure, valid argument since there are few out there, but there is little evidence that they will perform poorly compared to ICE cars
.
False. There's ones even older than mine running around, I see them everyday. So do you.

We do know.
I gave facts, right here:

There's every kind of ancient implement on the farm, back to a cletrack. It all works.
Except the two electric trucks. Batteries bad.

You want to disagree, perfectly fine. Good.
You want to start rearranging reality to fit your argument, You're blocked.
.
 
.India is the cleanest place anyone can ever go :rolleyes:

China is the second cleanest.

All because their emissions standards are the tops.
Wilful ignorance ... article from 2005, speculation from some guy in canada ...

2019

IMG_9761.jpg

two months ago

IMG_7266.jpg

yesterday

IMG_7287.jpg

been this way for the past five years, at least. Maybe longer.

Funny what people will believe, when they want to. Evidence be damned, we know better ....
 
.
False. There's ones even older than mine running around, I see them everyday. So do you.

We do know.
I gave facts, right here:



You want to disagree, perfectly fine. Good.
You want to start rearranging reality to fit your argument, You're blocked.
.
Facts, you apparently do not understand what a fact is
'there's even older running around' is not a fact in the confines of this argument.
There are model A's running around. 4.8 million were built though, so what does it mean?
Nothing

the fact that old dodge caravans exist does not mean that dodge caravans last longer than EVs will
 
China's pollution problems are well documented. A nice picture does not make them go away
Let me think, let me think ... well-documented, yup. By lying assholes. If you prefer to believe lying assholes over your own eyes, there's nothing I can do.

Twenty years ago, yes. But starting with the olympics and expo, they have made tremendous changes, as you could see if you didn't have a white cane.

Dr Hook said:
...where do all the cameras feed to?? Air quality board?
Traffic bureau. It ruined the adventure of walking anywhere, when cars would use the sidewalks for a passing lane and I no longer get to knock the mirrors off taxis trying to kill me, so it's a win-some lose-some deal. People actually drive like pussies now - stop for red lights, don't run over pedestrians, stay in their own lane, that kind of thing. Not as much fun but progress, what can you do ?

If the US tried that, maybe there'd be less deaths from driving while black. The camera system is pretty impartial. Break the rules, get a ticket. Don't break the rules, no one pulls you out of your car and shoots you six times because they are nervous.
 
China's pollution problems are well documented. A nice picture does not make them go away

But…
That and other factors are deciding factors in the implementation of EV’s in China on a pace similar to or advanced on those timelines put forth in the U.S.

I think someone posted exhaust pipes as a foil to US policies in all I can think of as “what use is it given CHINA”..
Not supported by the facts on the ground.
 
Let me think, let me think ... well-documented, yup. By lying assholes. If you prefer to believe lying assholes over your own eyes, there's nothing I can do.

Twenty years ago, yes. But starting with the olympics and expo, they have made tremendous changes, as you could see if you didn't have a white cane.


Traffic bureau. It ruined the adventure of walking anywhere, when cars would use the sidewalks for a passing lane and I no longer get to knock the mirrors off taxis trying to kill me, so it's a win-some lose-some deal. People actually drive like pussies now - stop for red lights, don't run over pedestrians, stay in their own lane, that kind of thing. Not as much fun but progress, what can you do ?

If the US tried that, maybe there'd be less deaths from driving while black. The camera system is pretty impartial. Break the rules, get a ticket. Don't break the rules, no one pulls you out of your car and shoots you six times because they are nervous.
wow, no proof, no evidence, just bluster
everyone lies but you, ok


BEIJING, Oct 31 (Reuters) - Authorities issued their highest warnings for fog and haze on Tuesday as smog enveloped major cities in northern China, warning the public that visibility could drop to less than 50 metres (164 feet).
Northern province Hebei launched an anti-pollution emergency response, listing traffic safety controls for when necessary including suspending flight takeoffs and landings, temporarily closing highways and suspending ferries, China's meteorological bureau said in a notice.

Authorities also warned road users to stop in safe parking areas when conditions required and asked people to stay indoors.
Beijing said it would implement traffic control measures if the capital activates its highest air pollution warning.
Heavy smog has engulfed the country's north for a few days while autumn temperatures soared to typical early summer levels close to 30 degrees Celsius (86 degrees Fahrenheit) in some areas.

Experts said weak cold air currents from the north pole were a key factor behind the unusual weather.
As air pollution levels in the wider Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei area and northern part of Henan province reached moderate to severe, pollution control experts said increased industrial activities, heavy trucking and crop fires had contributed to the haze, state media CCTV reported.
Regional power consumption in late October was up 5% compared with first half of the month, more significantly in the cement, brick and tile industries, worsening conditions, CCTV said.

 








 
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