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Way WAY OT...time to buy a new car...recommendations?

My power comes from a CoOp. I earn equity for every year I'm a customer. Every 20 or so years they pay out that equity, depending on the vote of the controlling board, and you get a check back for the equity you're owed. I've been a member for about 7 years, and my equity is not quite $800. They also do things like allow you to round up your bill to the nearest dollar, and the donation is kept aside for customers who need a hand paying their own bill.

Wow to your whole post. Completely foreign to me. People read my rants on here and wonder what I must be smoking. What I've described is how it has always been, my entire adult life (in Los Angeles county).

Adding something to my earlier explanation to @eKretz : because of California 'mandates' I'm going to be forced to spend many tens of thousands on my house if I like living indoors, bathing and cooking.

My stove is gas. No 220V. Gas stoves are already becoming scarce. If mine dies, I will have to pay to have power brought in from the panel. Luckily they'll be able to get in behind the stove through drywall on the other side or I'd be forced to demo the tile backsplash and cabinets and remodel the entire kitchen just for want of electricity.

A friend recently 'upgraded' his gas water heater to on-demand electric. That ended up costing $10K. Part of that was from pulling two 220V lines to the heaters. I'm literally having to consider stockpiling a couple of gas water heaters so I have them to last 'the rest of my life' or face that upgrade cost.

Ditto for the furnace. It gets cold here (20s F in the winter). No more gas furnaces. Change out the entire system. Ducts too. $20-30K? More power to come from the electric panel that it currently doesn't supply.

Oh, by the way: I'm out of knock-outs in the panel so the house will need a new supply panel or a sub. I haven't even started on the EV chargers I'm supposedly going to put in.

None of this was voted on by ballot. It was all implemented by the goons in Sacramento. How many people can afford those kinds of upgrades to their house, in the next 10-15 years? People are already screaming about housing prices. Do they think landlords won't pass those costs on to them? What do retired people do? This is 100% of the state. Nobody gets a pass. And yeah, other states are adopting it too.
 
You are lucky- my last shop bill was almost $.50/kwh. Go all wind and solar my ass!! This crap is driving businesses out of California and fucktard Newsom is still smiling about how wonderful things are. All the while there are no rebates for led lighting in this wonderful state.

I've already started stockpiling gas water heaters. The Cali versions are now about $800 each for a 40 gal because of the evil nitrous oxides that gas appliances spew out. Evil, greedy landlords can't pass on costs to tenants because that would be unfair. Billion dollar state budget shortfall but no road taxes on EVs.........rant off.
 
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Wow to your whole post. Completely foreign to me. People read my rants on here and wonder what I must be smoking. What I've described is how it has always been, my entire adult life (in Los Angeles county).

Adding something to my earlier explanation to @eKretz : because of California 'mandates' I'm going to be forced to spend many tens of thousands on my house if I like living indoors, bathing and cooking.

My stove is gas. No 220V. Gas stoves are already becoming scarce. If mine dies, I will have to pay to have power brought in from the panel. Luckily they'll be able to get in behind the stove through drywall on the other side or I'd be forced to demo the tile backsplash and cabinets and remodel the entire kitchen just for want of electricity.

A friend recently 'upgraded' his gas water heater to on-demand electric. That ended up costing $10K. Part of that was from pulling two 220V lines to the heaters. I'm literally having to consider stockpiling a couple of gas water heaters so I have them to last 'the rest of my life' or face that upgrade cost.

Ditto for the furnace. It gets cold here (20s F in the winter). No more gas furnaces. Change out the entire system. Ducts too. $20-30K? More power to come from the electric panel that it currently doesn't supply.

Oh, by the way: I'm out of knock-outs in the panel so the house will need a new supply panel or a sub. I haven't even started on the EV chargers I'm supposedly going to put in.

None of this was voted on by ballot. It was all implemented by the goons in Sacramento. How many people can afford those kinds of upgrades to their house, in the next 10-15 years? People are already screaming about housing prices. Do they think landlords won't pass those costs on to them? What do retired people do? This is 100% of the state. Nobody gets a pass. And yeah, other states are adopting it too.

Website is working now. This isn't the whole page, but this is the only part of my bill that has anything to do with money.

1717537743642.png

So $125.21/884kWh = $.14/kWh.

And here's the excerpt from April where they told me about my current equity.
1717537839069.png


As for the mandates... I haven't done enough research to know if they're exactly as you describe them or no. If they really were just implemented with no votes, and there are no exceptions, grandfathering, or subsidies for people who are going to be forced into 10s of thousands in home upgrades...Well, I agree, that's absolutely ludicrous.

Edit: And this is AFTER our power rates went up by about 15% last year, and people were FURIOUS.


Seems they don't know how good they have it.
 
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As for the mandates... I haven't done enough research to know if they're exactly as you describe them or no. If they really were just implemented with no votes, and there are no exceptions, grandfathering, or subsidies for people who are going to be forced into 10s of thousands in home upgrades...Well, I agree, that's absolutely ludicrous.
It's already been done in Colorado too. I have friends there and have been considering a relocation since California is so unfriendly to business. It would have to be a rural area because the whole Denver corridor is as bad as California. They also didn't vote on it.

Here's something to make your night. I flushed your power consumption for the same period, through my electric rates. This would be your current power bill in a city in California where nobody wants to live (high desert). Nobody can claim to me, "It's because you live in a HCOL area!" Your power is 1/3 what it would cost here, all fees included.

TeachMePlease.JPG
 
It's already been done in Colorado too. I have friends there and have been considering a relocation since California is so unfriendly to business. It would have to be a rural area because the whole Denver corridor is as bad as California. They also didn't vote on it.

Here's something to make your night. I flushed your power consumption for the same period, through my electric rates. This would be your current power bill in a city in California where nobody wants to live (high desert). Nobody can claim to me, "It's because you live in a HCOL area!" Your power is 1/3 what it would cost here, all fees included.

View attachment 442212

Only time I've had a bill that high was before I setup autopay and didn't pay for a month...
 
Only time I've had a bill that high was before I setup autopay and didn't pay for a month...
They're still screaming that they're going broke and they need to raise the rates. It's been a very mild spring. No AC or heat (blower fan). All LED lights. My recent bill is almost nothing but parasitic loads (refrigerator, clocks) the computer and some lights in one or two rooms at night. It's much worse in December or August.

Using some recharging numbers from here:

Based on the national average electricity cost of $0.13 per kWh, charging a Tesla can cost around $4.42 to travel 100 miles, which comes to almost $0.044 per mile. However, the actual cost will vary depending on the region and the local electricity rates.

To calculate the cost of charging a Tesla, you can multiply the kWh required to charge the battery by the cost per kWh of electricity in your area. For example, if the cost of electricity in your area is $0.12 per kWh and your Tesla Model 3 requires 60 kWh to fully charge, it would cost you $7.20 to charge your car.


Using the now-documented $0.45 / kWh, the same charge will cost a person in Los Angeles County, charging at home $15.30 per 100 miles. or $0.153/mile. Even at the outrageous California current $5.20/gallon that backs out as 34 MPG equivalent cost. That's the "charge at home for almost nothing" that people claim. Unless the state subsidizes the commercial chargers, they won't be giving away power. They get it from the same sources. Those subsidies will go away too.
 
What I've described is how it has always been, my entire adult life (in Los Angeles county).
Ouch. You must be younger than me :(

California was pretty normal until Enron. Then the whole thing went to shit and it just never came back to rational.

PG&E blowing up entire neighborhoods through incompetence, then sloughing off the costs on their customers didn't help.

Maybe put them in a box with caltrans ? The state paid for a study by stanford on how to fix caltrans. Conclusion was, can't be done. Only way to fix it was to blow the thing up entirely and start over from scratch.

But if Newsom and the Legislature have anything to do with it ....
 
I'm out in LA this week for work and I gotta say, California is a weird place. It's gotten weirder since the last time I was here as well. Drove past a Whole Foods with EV chargers in the lot and right next to it there is an old oil rig pumping away. Went down to the beach for dinner and right off shore is a whole bunch of tanker ships, and an oil rig off in the distance. I also love how every building has a nice sign telling you that you are going to get cancer if you walk in there. Also, everything is very expensive.

So when they ban gas cars are they going to stop all the oil pumping too? And shutdown the refineries?

I would imagine your electric rates are crazy high because you guys decided that the electric company should pay for all the wild fires.
 
No, just the ones they caused.
Including one that damn near killed my cousins. Did destroy their dream retirement house in Santa Rosa. No sympathy for electric companies that don’t do basic maintenance around their lines.
 
All the while there are no rebates for led lighting in this wonderful state.
Did you know that we pay more for the same light bulbs in California than in other states? Friends in Colorado bought a case of LED bulbs because their house was full of track lighting and the electric bills were going to be insane. Great price on Amazon. I get home to California and click the same link and it won't sell them to me. They aren't CEC compliant.

Dig a little deeper and I can buy the same bulbs (I think they were Sylvania), same specs except with the CEC compliance tribute money paid to Sacramento and they were 50% more expensive.
 
California is a microcosm of what is slowly happening to the entire country: self-destruction from within. From what y'all are saying about all the in-home regulations and other mandates coming down in Cali, the average household will be stretched to comply. Somethings got to give sooner or later, eh?!

California is like the entire U.S.: loaded with natural resources, plenty of arable land, and plenty of people willing to work hard.

We have handicapped our natural resources by choice, still have plenty of arable land (although expensive and what's not corporate is generational), and it seems like working hard is something a big chunk of American's have chosen not to do. This poor choice is facilitated by Uncle Sam, family, or cash endeavors both legal and illegal.

(Again, self-destruction from the inside-out.)

ToolCat
 
Did you know that we pay more for the same light bulbs in California than in other states? Friends in Colorado bought a case of LED bulbs because their house was full of track lighting and the electric bills were going to be insane. Great price on Amazon. I get home to California and click the same link and it won't sell them to me. They aren't CEC compliant.

Dig a little deeper and I can buy the same bulbs (I think they were Sylvania), same specs except with the CEC compliance tribute money paid to Sacramento and they were 50% more expensive.
Followed your link
That is some dumbass crap
Look, there is a lot of junk out there, but the amount of bureaucracy involved in that is silly
 
California is a microcosm of what is slowly happening to the entire country: self-destruction from within. From what y'all are saying about all the in-home regulations and other mandates coming down in Cali, the average household will be stretched to comply. Somethings got to give sooner or later, eh?!

California is like the entire U.S.: loaded with natural resources, plenty of arable land, and plenty of people willing to work hard.

We have handicapped our natural resources by choice, still have plenty of arable land (although expensive and what's not corporate is generational), and it seems like working hard is something a big chunk of American's have chosen not to do. This poor choice is facilitated by Uncle Sam, family, or cash endeavors both legal and illegal.

(Again, self-destruction from the inside-out.)

ToolCat
Oh yes, California is what is wrong with this country
Not Mississippi or anyplace like that
Get real
 
Uhh, yeah,
much worse air quality?
Baloney
Sorry gus, yesterday was raining so ...

raining.jpg

no reports but today was okay again, here's some of that horrific air for you ...

cloudy.jpg

plenty more where that came from (baoshan) but lemme save some space for quantitative measurements

us, not so bad today ...

shang-air.jpg

I like nanjing a lot, it's kind of a compromise between too old-fashioned and too glitzy AND it's a large port, lots of industry

nanjing-air.jpg

harbin is also good, up north, ice festival, two dishes I really like, ba si tudou which is caramelized potato chunks and di san qian which is potato, eggplant, peppers. Harbin is also a enter of heavy industry in the northeast

haerbin-air.jpg

tianjin because I knew it would be bad, it's famous for bad air and I don't want to be accused of cherry-picking. I will be anyhow but what can you do ? At least I try to be honest

tianjin-air.jpg

will it let us try houston ?

houston-air.jpg

new york (why does it say "bay shore ? all the other cities just say the city name and the collection station)

ny-air.jpg

not so good :( california ?

eureka-air.jpg

Pasadena, home of JPL, world's most advanced space research laboratory !

pasadena-air.jpg

(continued)
 
San Francisco, right on the bay and ocean, always fresh and clean, what with the techie takeover not a spot of industry to be found anywhere ...

sf-air.jpg

oops, what happened here ? If I wuz honest like npr, I could make up a bunch of shit about how horrific the pollution is in the US. But since I am honest, I'll just put it down to some anomaly, like PG&E blew up another neighborhood or something.

Got some space, let's clear the air with oakland

oakland-air.jpg

see ? I try to be fair and not stack the deck. To be brutally honest, there's no doubt that US air is better overall than China. Part of that is just the weather pattern but agreed, there's quite a ways to go here on various polluting factors.

But the point is, the garbage they feed you in the US is not true. Since about 2015 the establishment in the US has been hell-bent on slandering smearing and lying about China. The place is not perfect, far from it. But we don't need this dishonest shit. That's not a good thing.

Here, have chongqing, they have oh-too-spicy food but the city is kind of interesting. Hills and stuff, most of eastern china is boringly flat. We like round mounds ...

chongqing-air.jpg


@Lucky - baoshan is the old name for a neighborhood in north shanghai. There was a big steel company there called baoshan steel. Nowadays they call it zhabei. I refuse to call it jing an, it's not; that was a shuck by city officials to join them together :D Photo is hutai lu, you can find it on the map. Shanghai #3 that is now smtw was up there, they made grinders and stuff. Unfortunately I don't know anything about grinding :D
 
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EG, thanks. That makes more sense. Have a friend who’s Hangzhou origin, often back. Pics look nice.
 
Oh yes, California is what is wrong with this country
Not Mississippi or anyplace like that
Get real
AFAIK, Mississippi isn't planning to outlaw all gas appliances, or all ICE cars and semis, gas-powered tools, etc. Electricity in Mississippi is $.15 per KWH, not $.50.
Mississippi isn't drowning in billions of debt like California. They don't plan to give illegals a down payment for a house, their firefighters can't retire after 20 years with full 6-figure pay.

We could go on for hours about the dumb shit that California does and plans to do....

California is certainly "leading the way" to an elitist liberal utopia. It's all good until the straw breaks the camel's back....

ToolCat
 








 
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