What's new
What's new

weight of ruhla FUW 250 / 710, ruhla [thiel] duplex 58 or 159

Electronics and processors I'm not so good at; I've built a couple of simple things as needed but it's not something easy for me. Diagnosis of failed electronics is a headache.
That crazy relay bank I can actually handle.
The motor is 2 speed so when going to VFD the low speed has to be disabled [that's what I heard anyway]. That makes the speed selection knob go funny. I have to wok out which ratios rely on cutting the motor speed.

I could replce the missing gear with an electric switch that would alter the motor speed, replace the slow speed wiring to activate another preset motor speed, and recreate the speed knob.

Which would be really cool, but other than that a lot of work for little gain.

You're right, I could keep the 2 remaining gears. The ratio difference is small though, redundant with the vfd I think.
Anyway, all food for thought.

I got the 1.5kw Lenz for 45 euros! I was the only bidder.
3-phase input versions go cheap; industry doesn't buy second hand, and hobbyists want 1 phase input.
 
I'm feeling a bit thick here; because Peter just helped me realize that I can simply block off the broken speeds with little consequence.
I don't need the VFD if I don't need the missing speeds.

Here's the speed breakdown.
L = motor on low speed, this speed will be effectively lost by adding the VFD, then reclaimed by running 25 hz.
H = high motor speed
X = not working due to the broken gear.

So, you guys who use mills; are those missing speeds worth much?
Is there much value in a top speed higher than 2240?
It seems plenty fast to me but I'm fixing a machine I know nothing about using.

45 rpm L
56 x
71 rpm L
90 rpm H
112 X
140 rpm H
180 rpm L
224 X
280 rpm L
355 rpm H
450 X
560 rpm H
710 rpm L
900 X
1120 rpm L
1400 rpm H
1800 x
2240 rpm H
 
Last edited:
Max rpm of a Deckel is 2000 So you can make decent work with a topspeed of 2240
Nothing lost in trying to work with the missing gear You can always ad a VFD
And in the meanwhile gain experience That itself is valuable
Start making chips

Peter
 
The free gear isn't going to happen, so it's the 12 speed option.

I had to repair the gear change box. Someone took out a couple of the selector push pins, probably to modify it so that the broken gear won't engage.
But if so, he took out the wrong pins. Those are for one of the working gears.

So, 2 new pins pressed in, I ran it through all the positions and the selectors all move and lock as they should.

I'm out of gasket silicone so I'll probably go old school and make a paper gasket, I can start reassembly tomorrow.

There may be more problems, but supposedly it all works except for this gear issue.

new pins; 5.1 mm for a light press fit.
ruhla 250 710 gear selecter box push pins.jpg

Pressed them with a clamp and a little tap of a hammer

ruhla 250 710 gear selecter box push pin install.jpg

I ran through all the positions, the selectors go where they should and the lock bar does its thing.

ruhla 250 710 gear selecter box3.jpg
 
That's quite something. I know it's off-thread, but did the locomotive survive the fall? How did you get it out of the pit?

Not relevant to the original post, but to answer the question:

Locomotive was fine, no damage, stayed on the rails of the bridge....
Engine was housed in a large service building used to service the "Key System" electric interurbans (trams) that ran across the Bay Bridge.
Engine (WP 94) has been stored in the barn for years after the Key system closed. Scale was installed in one end of the shop building bridging a portion of the service pit.
We needed to move the loco outside to allow jacking it up for removal and servicing of the front truck. To do this the engine needed to pass over the scale.

Scale was built by Fairbanks Morse.and was installed to weigh the rail removed (scrapped) from the bridge when the Key System closed... We called them to determine if the scale could handle the load....
Their reply was that if it was a railroad scale, no problem.....

Well turns out that the scrappers cheeped out and mounted the components of a truck scale to the bridge crossing the service pit.....Which failed completely once the engine was fully on the scale section.

Good news is that it went pretty much straight down ,but not completely to the floor of the pit....The rubble of the scale fulcrums acted like jack stands, holding everything up from the floor.....


Raised the engine and the scale bridge in one piece using rented 100 ton porta-power cylinders (4) and remote power (pressure) source which allowed lifting everything without needing to be close to the parts being lifted.
Project was in preparation to moving the engine to a railroad museum of which i was a member at the time....

Wester Pacific's Last Operable Steam Engine

Cheers Ross
 
I have an old Dutch barge. built onto it is an older crane. Like 100 years old, or more.
I modernized it a bit with electric motors and a remote.

A steel mast 4 meters high with wire stays and a swinging boom about 5 meters long.

So I was lifting about 1/2 ton of new steel T sections from the ship over another, when the stays decided that they'd stayed long enough, and it was time to go.

The mast bent about halfway up, to a 45 degree angle. load fell into the water as the boom hit the edge of the barge along side [that I was standing on].
The shock was enough to snap the hoist wire, and my material went down into the mud 3 meters below.

Pretty tame compared to dropping a locomotive; but it's all I got.

A buddy came over and we fished out the 6 meter lengths one at a time with boat hooks. It took a long time, it was cold and wet, and the highly aromatic mud got everywhere.

I repaired the mast and replaced the stays and hoist wire.

Then there was the motorbike rack that failed as I drove my bus down a rural road in southern India, and my bike fell 1.4 meters, into the road...

I was at a shipyard last year when the slip cable broke.
a 100 ton barge rolled down a steep ramp at significant velocity, and only stopped when it crashed into a moored yacht.
Very exciting.

Later as they were letting my ship back into the water, I told the foreman; "I have complete confidence in you guys, I know your gear is all top notch!"
 
Later as they were letting my ship back into the water, I told the foreman; "I have complete confidence in you guys, I know your gear is all top notch!"

? ...or has notches all the way to the top?

So he sez: "Do you smoke, drink, curse, hoor, mistreat dumb animals, or abuse equipment?"

And you reply no to all of those.

Curious, now, he asks: "Have you any vices at ALL?"

"Just one."

"And what might that be?"




"I LIE!"

:D
 
What kind of a man do you take me for? Of course I have vises!
+
View attachment 306791

LOL! "in the spirit of..."

.. tempted to grasp the 8" x 8" shaper vise in the 10" X 12" DP vise, grip the James Morton Size 2 holding a Quad-I, stack five Gerardi Modulars and crown the mountain with the Taiwanese and Littleforge ignorant vanilla "bench" vises atop the Alzmetall AB5/s big rectangular table.... there are more...

But to accumulate so many "vices"? One is likely to also be OLD. And I am!

I now need lifting gear (and HAVE it..) ELSE the aid of a younger man - to even LIFT the most massive 2 of that motley lot safely!

But the vises are as strong as ever... whether I still am or not!

Táss bem...

:D
 
Update; personal circumstances has kept me away from the machine. I ordered some relays from the UK and they got stuck on the other side of the water thanks to Brexit.

I did find the weight though.
I made a scale from a used hydraulic cylinder and a pressure gauge.
Result; 1325kg
That's with some covers off and a few tools on the table so the measurement will need repeating at some point.

Before I caged the cylinder in the frame, I put it in my vice to measure jaw pressure.
1.5 tons with the standard handle, 3 tons with a 2' cheater pipe. After that friction builds up a lot.

ruhla 250 x 710 on hoist.jpg

hoist scale.jpg
 
That's basically what I did; but I rebuilt an old cylinder (or puck as you guys seem to call these little ones) instead of making a new one.
It was leftover; I bought it with a hand pump at a flea market far away long ago. Now I've repurposed the pump to operate a shop press so the cylinder was orphaned.

Too bad I didn't think of testing my mill vise with it before I caged it into the hanging frame.
 
I bought more relays and installed them, as well as a few other minor electrical upgrades, like a silicon rectifier and a few diodes to drain back emf on the clutch + brake coils.

To make the job easier, I put the mill on my tool table.
I knew I overbuilt it for a reason...
Ruhla 250 710 on workbench.jpg

6 out of 9 relays I replaced had faulty contacts and one had a bad coil.


Ruhla 250 710 new relay bank.jpg

I'll plug it in tomorrow.
I'm slightly terrified.

Wish me luck!
 
Are you going to plug it in to check the relays/electronics ? Sounds like to have already done that. Or to run the machine as a mill for the first time?

By the way, why does it have so many relays? What are they for?

Last comment: I completely understand why you lifted up the machine to work on it. Also, it looks like there is a reasonable access around the machine's relays. I had neither of these things a couple of years ago when I needed to replace a single overload protector on my relay-based J&S540. Replacing that single part took 90 uncomfortable minutes! It was so bad that I started a thread to vent about it: Klöckner-Moeller motor protectors
 
I don't know why there are so many; whoever designed it just loved relays I guess.
each motor has reverse + 2 speeds, so that's 3 contactors but I think somehow there are 4 for each motor.

The feed can be set to automatically reverse at the highest speed after hitting the limit switch.

When this was built, it seems that silicon diodes weren't available (the Selenium rectifier tells that story), so maybe that increased the number of switches (as opposed to a DC control system with a handful of diodes to isolate things).

There are 2 electric brakes (feed and spindle) and 2 clutches (feed normal and feed high speed).

So after powering up, nothing worked at all. I found a loose contact on one of the stop buttons and now the spindle motor works, locks "on" until the stop button is pressed.

But no feed, no spindle brake, and the indicator light of the spindle motor not on, except once when I accidently shorted something, after which it lit up while the motor was on as it should.
The indicator lights have their own little 20vac power supply. Weird.

So, there's another self locking circuit that should be energized but isn't.
I have 2 electrical diagrams but neither shows the complete crazy relay wiring, so tracking down a fault from first principles is not likely.

Still, now that some parts work I'm reasonably optimistic.

I could try intentionally shorting out those contacts, and when I find the one that starts everything working then the fault should be easy to find.

It occurs to me as the control system is powered by its own isolation transformer, there should be no power connection to the machine frame. I need to look into that too.

The spindle motor belt is removed and the table removed too, as well as the top slide (it had a middle top slide and a top top slide). It's it test mode, I won't be trying to make any chips with it on the table!
 
Thanks, I have the Ruhla 250/710 manual translated into English.

And 2 wiring diagrams also.

What I don't have is a diagram showing the actual complete relay connections.

So, mucking around I have found the feed motor will come on when the table right or left switches are on, however in either case it only moves right.

It should not come on unless the spindle is running.

So, there is an error in the relay wiring. Maybe it was me, or maybe it was whoever was there before me as that relay was already changed once in the past.

If anyone has one of these machines and can take photos of relay HS 10, 20, and 30 I might be saved.
 
I fixed it;

Found a loose wire in the upper control button box, and a last mistake I made when noting connections before dismantling.

Now all the power functions are working!

I was ripped off for this machine.
I bought it unseen from a shop in Germany, who told me it had a mechanical problem in the gear change system, which it did.

They didn't tell me it had multiple electrical faults, a missing gear rack, a stripped gear, and the manual they sent with it is the wrong one, and misprinted too.

Anyway, it's here after shipping 800 miles, and now it's mine.

Next is to start measuring the accuracy, or lack thereof.

I don't do super precise work (obviously!).
 








 
Back
Top