Welding connecting rods

[Dave123]

Thanks guys, all good advice, this engine is not going see any high rpm’s.
With the stock T gearing 50 mph is only
2000 rpm,….fast enough for me !

 

[BillE]

"Don's Boxed Rods from the fifties."

Small world- I worked with Don Alpenfeld's son for many years early in my career. One day Bill came to me and said he was moving and had a bunch of his dads old tools in his garage and wanted to get rid of them and did I have any interest. I said sure and collected them up. Found out later who his dad was and what he did. I still have the egg scale that his dad used to balance his rods on in my shop.

Helped a friend last week in the process of selling his place due to ill health. Wincing as his daughter saw his lifetime's accumulation of tooling and stuff as nothing more than fit for scrap and still not quite accepting he wouldn't be able to finish a few last projects - had me retrieve objects from the bin after she left - she'll undoubtedly thank me for that later!

Funnily enough lots of rod blanks and jigs for making them went in the skip. Welding them has probably already been the subject of one of those sandal wearing Pakistani manufacturing vids if looking for tips.

 

[BOB-OO]

I dunno about aluminium rods being cheap......a set of new Square 4 rods are $2000 from the AOMCC......made in the US....from billet,so they say.

Is it really so expensive?
One failure will cost you:
the block- ?$$
the crank-?$$
maybe a head-definitely will need hours of work-?$$

How much has all that cost? Maybe not the 2k, maybe a lot more. I learned playing with engines that go in cars with prancing horses on the emblem, the pennywise pound foolish thing is x1000 when building engines, but it is your money.

 

[Milland]

Is it really so expensive?
One failure will cost you:
the block- ?$$
the crank-?$$
maybe a head-definitely will need hours of work-?$$

How much has all that cost? Maybe not the 2k, maybe a lot more. I learned playing with engines that go in cars with prancing horses on the emblem, the pennywise pound foolish thing is x1000 when building engines, but it is your money.

You build engines for Pintos? Damn, I still have a 2L EAO engine here, how much power can you get from it?

 

[EmGo]

You build engines for Pintos? Damn, I still have a 2L EAO engine here, how much power can you get from it?

You shoulda got the V6 - they shitngit ! fun fun fun till daddy takes the tbird away !

(Just looked at tbirds last night on craigslist ... damn, people want a lot for old junk these days !

either that or money ain't worth squat these days, what with uncle ben handing it out like candy to the banksters. Why do we have inflation ? let me think ... how could that possibly happen, hmmm )

 

[eKretz]

Ja, boxed rods were a thing in ... the fifties ? The pinnacle of hot rodding innovation years ? In fact, there's a chapter in one of Phil Irving's books, maybe Motorcycle Engineering about the potential to make conrods as weldments. I'd consider that for this project, in fact. Get exactly what you want, probably no more work than finding then bashing around a bunch of parts that have been used for seventy years. Or paying two grand or more for Carillos.

Mr Irving was the engineer behind the Brabham engines that won F1 championship in ... 1968 or so ? He's no slouch.

Use 4130 plate ? Heat treat afterwards ? Should work nicely.

Or .... okay, this is overkill ... make them from bar, hollow, like Offy rods. As a lathe guy I find that appealling

I worked with a guy that made his own set of h-beam rods from solid for an inline 4 Honda café bike. He used 4130 or 4140 Q&T as I recall. He did a real nice job and they held up great. Had a turbo on the bike for a while, no issues. He ended up wrecking it after 10 years or so and stripped the engine back apart to get the rods back out. Kept 'em in his toolbox.

As far as welding on connecting rods? I think I'm in the camp of: you can do all kinds of things; but should you? I don't think I'd risk that one unless it was on a minibike or something.

 

[gbent]

How many of you guys have even seen a Model T engine, let alone work on one? eK, your minibike puts a larger load on the internals than a Model T. 1 3/8 diameter rod journals, dipper oiling with what was probably oil straight from the well, and a whopping 4:1 compression ratio. I will admit they were so far advanced there were even individual coil packs, just like your new car. I think making welded rods with a horror freight .025 wire welder would work.

 

[eKretz]

How many of you guys have even seen a Model T engine, let alone work on one? eK, your minibike puts a larger load on the internals than a Model T. 1 3/8 diameter rod journals, dipper oiling with what was probably oil straight from the well, and a whopping 4:1 compression ratio. I will admit they were so far advanced there were even individual coil packs, just like your new car. I think making welded rods with a horror freight .025 wire welder would work.

Not me, not familiar with the Model T. But looks like Google is saying 3.75" bore and a 4" stroke. That's a lot bigger than a minibike piston and a shitload more stroke. But it ain't mine, you guys go for it. I figger I'd just buy or make some rods, myself.

 

[john.k]

Late 60s ,use to buy running ModelT s for $50 and sell them for $200......in the early days of the Vintage Car Club ,cheap US made cars wernt allowed ,there were hundreds of 20s Fords Dodges and Chevs still on the road here in 1970

 

[EmGo]

How many of you guys have even seen a Model T engine, let alone work on one?

I don't do engines but can push the cycle start button pretty good ...



sometimes gotta take a load to heat treat ...



and if you ever need a passenger for a trip to the ice cream store, I'm your pumpkin ...

https://files.catbox.moe/k3dfab.mp4

 

[Cole2534]

I learned playing with engines that go in cars with prancing horses on the emblem, the pennywise pound foolish thing is x1000 when building engines, but it is your money.

Any of those cars have a 4:1 compression ratio?

It would appear that your prancing horse is for a different course.

 

[ratbldr427]

Late 60s ,use to buy running ModelT s for $50 and sell them for $200......in the early days of the Vintage Car Club ,cheap US made cars wernt allowed ,there were hundreds of 20s Fords Dodges and Chevs still on the road here in 1970

John , one of my cousins in Charters Towers had quite a collection of US cars. When ever he came over here he was always looking for parts and such for his collection. One thing I found strange was the 20% import duty on cars as antiques would not have any impact on the car production(which I guess is why it existed?)
In the early 60's there were a lot of those cars here really cheap also,mostly Model A's and later only remember finding a few T's. But like most teenagers we were not interested in restoring them but making hot rods out of them. The drive trains were the first thing to go.

 

[Limy Sami]

I don't do engines but can push the cycle start button pretty good ...

View attachment 390026

sometimes gotta take a load to heat treat ...

View attachment 390028

and if you ever need a passenger for a trip to the ice cream store, I'm your pumpkin ...

https://files.catbox.moe/k3dfab.mp4

Nows that's what I call a works truck!

 

[BT Fabrication]

there has to be something around that can fit from current or past production without having to make something.

personally in the welding world, I wouldn't ever concider welding a connecting rod as most are hardenable steel and will fail right beside the weld.

 

[PackardV8]

there has to be something around that can fit from current or past production without having to make something.

personally in the welding world, I wouldn't ever concider welding a connecting rod as most are hardenable steel and will fail right beside the weld.

As some have correctly stated, most (but not all; google Armasteel) connecting rods are forged steel and can be welded with no problems. Back when hotrodding/drag racing was a shadetree thing, welded boxed Chrysler and Oldsmobile rods were a common mod in top fuel racing. I once owned a set made and sold by C-T Automotive.

A welded rod in a T would live long and prosper. However, my local T expert doesn't go there because he says putting a Chevrolet crankshaft in a Ford is just wrong.

jack vines

 

[Limy Sami]

I've been thinking ( yeah I know it's dangerous but I blame my age so tough titty) about welding said rods

1 Make a jig to hold rod accuately at the req'd centres and off sets, ................ jig has to allow access from both sides.

2 Cut and weld prep rod

3 Pre heat

4 Weld

5 Post weld heat treat

6 Straighten as much as possible

7 Make a jig for holding for re-machining of the eye most affected by the welding process, and of course maintaining centre distances - you have got enough metal left to bring said eyes to size, ............. haven't you???

8 You still don't know if what you have is good, so some form of NDT ?

9 You have plenty of spare blocks ( that's for when one of the welded rods breaks and punches out the side of the block)

 

[john.k]

Oddly enough ,a lot of T s here were bought up by Japs about 1975,boosted the price of a 20s car to $1500 overnight......then about 4 years later ,Japs came back here again and bought all the model A s .......pretty typical for me ,when T s were plentiful,I was only interested in 34 coupes and roadsters......also had a nice restored Willys Knight 66 roadster.

 

[pan60]

i dont see why the rods could not be welded? if could find a off the shelf rod i could make work i would not be afraid to weld em.

 

[BillE]

^^^Any off-the-shelf rods are made of alloys, which would have fail at the weld written all over them, even at just 33 force reversals per second. The old crap, would be superior for that purpose. Not sure what's in a T, but judging by others of that era, deep skirted steel pistons that must weigh at least 4 or 5 times what an aluminium piston does.

Dunno about the Japanese buying vintage and veteran cars, a long since dead acquaintance who was into that, sold anything with pedigree almost exclusively to Europe 50 years ago. The Japanese were keen on 70s dross from their own market around 25~30 years ago though.

 

[PackardV8]

It's amazing to me you guys who have zip experience welding on connecting rods are telling those of us who have successfully done it that it won't work. What's wrong with this picture?

Not sure what's in a T, but judging by others of that era, deep skirted steel pistons that must weigh at least 4 or 5 times what an aluminium piston does.

Aluminum pistons, both cast and forged, have been available and used in modified Ts for almost a hundred years.

jack vines