What's your essential toolholder list?

[ManualEd]

I'm trying to get a detailed list together to get a price comparison between brands if we grab a new mill.

Its an Okuma M660 VB with a 12k rpm Cat 50 big plus spindle, 32 tool ATC.
6" spindle nose to table, most of my work will be in a vise.(Probably pick up a few Orange vises)

I have a likely job milling some 12" dia 110lb cast iron discs down to 15lb finished parts.
Most of the roughing will be with 3" and 2" high feed mills. Finishing the profile will need a 5/8 5xD endmill.
The rest is just general milling/drilling/tapping in steel, cast iron, and aluminum.

The Okuma dealer also reps Lyndex-nikken, Big Daishowa and Sandvik tools/toolholders.
You can add on a $10k-$50k tooling certificate when buying a machine to get a 30-40% discount off list price.
The cert can be used all at once to order tools, or order over the course of a year as you figure out what you need.



Are sidelocks worthwhile?
With so many options, what the hell would you choose?

 

[gregormarwick]

For big parts in a 50 taper, invest in a bunch of capto c6 holders, extensions, adapters, and actual milling heads if you like Sandvik.

The ability to build a tool tailored to what you're doing is priceless for this kind of work.

 

[Mtndew]

Sidelocks are good for heavy roughing for no endmill pullout. Unless you splurge for the special locking hydraulic holders.

Sandvik holders are NOT cheap (even with our big discount) and they don't have a wide variety, especially in big plus but their tooling is excellent, especially their newly acquired Dura Mill end mills I've been using the shit out of them for a while now.

I'd ditch the certificate and go with Mari-Tool, unless they also honor it.
If you're doing a lot of big rounds like that, do you have a "cheap" 3 jaw chuck you can bolt to the table to hold them?

 

[DouglasJRizzo]

Are sidelocks worthwhile?
With so many options, what the hell would you choose?

If the machine has the "Big-Plus" spindle - and I think it does, make sure you have at least some, full contact tool holders.
Collet holders are great but hydraulic usually hold tighter.
You've got a CAT 50 spindle with lots of Hp and torque. On a VERY rigid machine. I'd ask the Sandvik guy for tool holders and such that can really make the most of the machine's capabilities.
Lyndex is a great holder as well.

 

[ManualEd]

Sidelocks are good for heavy roughing for no endmill pullout. Unless you splurge for the special locking hydraulic holders.

Sandvik holders are NOT cheap (even with our big discount) and they don't have a wide variety, especially in big plus but their tooling is excellent, especially their newly acquired Dura Mill end mills I've been using the shit out of them for a while now.

I'd ditch the certificate and go with Mari-Tool, unless they also honor it.
If you're doing a lot of big rounds like that, do you have a "cheap" 3 jaw chuck you can bolt to the table to hold them?

Agreed on Sandvik's variety of tool holders.
The tooling cert would also apply to sandviks cutting tools which is handy. Their endmills look impressive, but I haven't gotten any pricing back on them yet.

Maritool was already on the list for some hydraulics, but it doesn't look like Frank has too much Cat 50 dual contact in stock right now (fair enough, its got to be a <1% portion of the market)

I have an old 16" scroll chuck I was going to try for the parts, or make some master jaws for the vise that use the Schunk grippers from their Pendulum vise jaws so I can run more than 1 at a time.

 

[Mtndew]

Their endmills look impressive, but I haven't gotten any pricing back on them yet.

Their Plura line is pretty pricey, but the Dura Mill line is relatively competitive if you get their discount.
For your typical 1/2" 4 flute variable helix, .03" corner rad and 1-1/4" l.o.c. we pay about $67 each. But they last forever, and all we cut is steels like 4150pht, 4340, 8620,304ss,17-4ph, etc...

 

[OVodov]

For indexable cutters you won't be disappointed by using Sandvik.
Their CAPTO extension will help you to assemble tools to any length you will need.
I try to avoid side lock holders, they don't give you flexibility of playing with gauge length,
Milling chucks are very strong too but much more flexible.
You can get milling chucks from Lindex.
I use milling chucks for roughing operations, hydraulic chucks for finishing and ER collet chucks for drilling, tapping and reaming.
I hate ER collet chucks from Lindex, it's very tricky to snap a collet into holder,
You can get ER collet chucks from MariTool.
Solid carbide tools from Sandvik are not worth their cost (just like our Canadian Prime minister ).

 

[ManualEd]

I ended up with this for now. I'll pick up a few hydraulics and a bunch of sleeves from Frank, and then grab stuff as I need it.

MEGA DOUBLE POWER CHUCK 1-1/4 CAT SHK- Big Kaiser

ER 32 holder- 4" GL Lyndex Nikken

ER32 holder- 6" GL Lyndex Nikken

ER40 holder 4" GL Lyndex Nikken

Shell mill holder 1.5"Dx3" GL

Shell mill holder 1"Dx3" GL

Shell mill holder .75"Dx3" GL

Shell mill holder .75"Dx6" GL

Hydraulic holder 1 1/4"x4" GL

Endmill holder 1.5" x 3"GL coolant thru

Endmill holder 1.25" x 3"GL coolant thru

Endmill holder 1" x 3"GL coolant thru

Endmill holder .75" x 3"GL coolant thru

2" high feed mill, 5 flute

3" high feed mill that uses the same inserts as the 2"

1" shoulder mill

4" 45 deg face mill, 5 flute

1.25" shoulder mill

2" shoulder mill, same inserts as the 1.25" and 1"

 

[gregormarwick]

I ended up with this for now. I'll pick up a few hydraulics and a bunch of sleeves from Frank, and then grab stuff as I need it.

MEGA DOUBLE POWER CHUCK 1-1/4 CAT SHK- Big Kaiser

ER 32 holder- 4" GL Lyndex Nikken

ER32 holder- 6" GL Lyndex Nikken

ER40 holder 4" GL Lyndex Nikken

Shell mill holder 1.5"Dx3" GL

Shell mill holder 1"Dx3" GL

Shell mill holder .75"Dx3" GL

Shell mill holder .75"Dx6" GL

Hydraulic holder 1 1/4"x4" GL

Endmill holder 1.5" x 3"GL coolant thru

Endmill holder 1.25" x 3"GL coolant thru

Endmill holder 1" x 3"GL coolant thru

Endmill holder .75" x 3"GL coolant thru

2" high feed mill, 5 flute

3" high feed mill that uses the same inserts as the 2"

1" shoulder mill

4" 45 deg face mill, 5 flute

1.25" shoulder mill

2" shoulder mill, same inserts as the 1.25" and 1"

A reasonable selection, but I do think you are selling yourself short without capto.

I really would not be without my selection C6 tooling on the 50 taper machines...

 

[OVodov]

just out of curiosity. Why only 5 flutes for 45 degree face mill 4” diameter? I have 3” with the same number of flutes.

 

[ManualEd]

just out of curiosity. Why only 5 flutes for 45 degree face mill 4” diameter? I have 3” with the same number of flutes.

The list was mostly copy and paste.
I'm leaving it up to the tooling guy to see what they'd recommend in the general area of it.

 

[ManualEd]

A reasonable selection, but I do think you are selling yourself short without capto.

I really would not be without my selection C6 tooling on the 50 taper machines...

It would make the gauge length selection pretty moot wouldn't it...

Do you find that a Cat50 to C6 adapter, with 1 extension and a Capto facemill arbor would be nearly as rigid as a solid 6" gauge length facemill arbor?

 

[OVodov]

Which brands you are considering for indexable tooling?

 

[gregormarwick]

It would make the gauge length selection pretty moot wouldn't it...

Do you find that a Cat50 to C6 adapter, with 1 extension and a Capto facemill arbor would be nearly as rigid as a solid 6" gauge length facemill arbor?

The difference in rigidity is pretty much indistinguishable.

However it is not going to be a cost saving vs. having a whole bunch of solid facemill arbours.

It's more that you can usually build a capto tool very close to the perfect length, whereas the solid arbours are never quite right. That and you can put whatever kind of tool you want on the end of it. I have often enough had something in an ER32 collet on the end of a stupid long stacked up capto assembly.

It's just flexibility, and it's invaluable on big parts.

 

[ManualEd]

Which brands you are considering for indexable tooling?

Sandvik and Sumitomo is what the machine dealer reps, but we have good dealers local-ish for Seco, and Kennametal.

Say what you want about Titans of CNC, but I'm not going to complain about the promos Kennametal have been putting out with them.
$325 CAD for a 2" dodeca face mill and a box of inserts is a screaming deal.

 

[OVodov]

The difference in rigidity is pretty much indistinguishable.

However it is not going to be a cost saving vs. having a whole bunch of solid facemill arbours.

It's more that you can usually build a capto tool very close to the perfect length, whereas the solid arbours are never quite right. That and you can put whatever kind of tool you want on the end of it. I have often enough had something in an ER32 collet on the end of a stupid long stacked up capto assembly.

It's just flexibility, and it's invaluable on big parts.

Cad? You are from Canada, I suppose. Which province?

 

[RC Mech]

As we’re in Canada we use BRT Tools. Good pricing and quick to ship to our shop, and forget about the USD mark up.

Reverse case can be taken advantage of for you US shops.

https://www.eagleindustrial.ca/shop/rotary-tooling/

 

[CarbideBob]

I have a likely job milling some 12" dia 110lb cast iron discs down to 15lb finished parts.

What are planning on using a a cutting tool material?

 

[Garwood]

Late to the party, but I would choose SK10 and SK16 over ER collets.

 

[gregormarwick]

Cad? You are from Canada, I suppose. Which province?

I think you quoted the wrong post. I am not from Canada.