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Why should an employee have confidence in your business?

If his machines/tools and skills can only produce $25 and hour then he can't have air conditioning and pay 50 bucks per hour.
So, with demanding that guy pay $30 per, both he and his worker are out of business and a job.
A government regulated economy works with communism and the like, but most often worker class people are just scraping by.
QT: (to stand up and demand change.) or learn better skills, or apply at the better paying shop, move out of the mountains and go to where the jobs are.
Dont fource the guy who only has shovels for tools to pay the same as the guy with bulldozzers.

For the record where I worked was a full manual and CNC shop. With a 5 axis. So he was the bulldozer guy.
 
if I had a truck full of shovels willing to pay pennies to guys with shovels
to do the same job but take far longer to do it, I may be bullshitting myself as to the viability of the business and the value it offers.
This is where the government is supposed to do its job. Some, I guess, do. Or at least try to.

Your job is to look at your own situation and see what is the best you can do. But someone, somewhere needs to be looking at the big picture and attempting to make all the parts work together.

These people and their "get rid of government" idea are mistaken. The governments of the US are worthless, that's true, but having none does not work either. Someone in the shop has to organize everything. You need a boss, aka organizer. Just letting everybody do whatever they want and hoping for the best is not an answer.

Getting a decent boss, that's the problem that needs solving.

Marjorie Taylor Greene ain't it.

(Yes, it's relevant because when the whole society is based on horseshit, aka Milton Friedman, then nothing can work properly. Most of these issues come from the past fifty years of fuckedup thinking).
 
People gotta remember also, the choice is yours, you can leave whenever you want.

Also a business owner started a business to scale his time to $$ ratio to live a certain lifestyle.

How did he do it, by providing a value to a customer in exchange for a price point.

How is it done, system creates a product or service in exchange for said price point.

If the worker dislikes any part of the system at hand, you leave,
its not a democracy.

Its a communist dictatorship. but one you can opt out of at any time. :D
 
This is where the government is supposed to do its job. Some, I guess, do. Or at least try to.

Your job is to look at your own situation and see what is the best you can do. But someone, somewhere needs to be looking at the big picture and attempting to make all the parts work together.

These people and their "get rid of government" idea are mistaken. The governments of the US are worthless, that's true, but having none does not work either. Someone in the shop has to organize everything. You need a boss, aka organizer. Just letting everybody do whatever they want and hoping for the best is not an answer.

Getting a decent boss, that's the problem that needs solving.

Marjorie Taylor Greene ain't it.

(Yes, it's relevant because when the whole society is based on horseshit, aka Milton Friedman, then nothing can work properly. Most of these issues come from the past fifty years of fuckedup thinking).
This has truths, you can have your own little piece of the pie that you control(your business)
but also we as a society have created a unnatural ecosystem we all must live in, if only we were bees or ants.

Studies show that psychologically most people like to have a controlled system at work, someone and something in place, that they do not want total freedom, or the anarchy that comes with it.
More like children looking to parent for all that your parents offered, in control, stability, safety.
Truth is anthropologically we are supposed to live and work in groups, not as individuals like it is now.

And as you have pointed out before, there are a lot of people that only have the skill set to use the shovels, even at the lower pay, they still can live better than being homeless,
we don't all have the skills to be the bulldozer operators.
 
I think that hardest issue is that the reality of humanity does not sync with efficiency and profits of business which is that every single person to be able to survive in society needs to be adequately employed.

That does not always compute in scenarios where a business is trying to maximise profit and efficiency.
 
I think that hardest issue is that the reality of humanity does not sync with efficiency and profits of business which is that every single person to be able to survive in society needs to be adequately employed.

That does not always compute in scenarios where a business is trying to maximise profit and efficiency.
The issue we have at it's core, is people want more than they need, and the belief that it brings you more happiness.
 
The issue we have at it's core, is people want more than they need, and the belief that it brings you more happiness.

Did you see this ? #61, had me in stitches, so true


and SND's post later down the page, not as funny but yup. For sure :)
 
If things are truly that difficult and that financially oppressive why should an employee of any kind see it as a good career move?
It might not be.

It scratches an itch, satisfying the curiosity of whether you can do better on your own.

Plenty of business owners regret their decisions, some because they fail, and some in spite of success, maybe because it was a pyrrhic victory.

I think the best move these days is to moonlight with a side business while working a 9-5. The day job provides you with financial security today while your side biz provides you with financial security tomorrow.
 
Leadership, instead of the fucked-up "free market" dog eat dog system the US currently loves, where everyone is screaming at each other over stupid shit that doesn't matter, while the house burns down.

So take the dog for a walk instead and don't worry about it, cuz there's nothing you can do. We are surrounded by imbeciles. Outnumbered to the nth.
the system in the US is NOT a free market system... cant be, when govt regulates who can and cant participate.
 
It might not be.

It scratches an itch, satisfying the curiosity of whether you can do better on your own.

Plenty of business owners regret their decisions, some because they fail, and some in spite of success, maybe because it was a pyrrhic victory.

I think the best move these days is to moonlight with a side business while working a 9-5. The day job provides you with financial security today while your side biz provides you with financial security tomorrow.
exactly where i am right now and i gotta say, its pretty awesome! especially since my side gig is doing my own stuff on work equipment after hours until i buy my own machine.
 
Did you see this ? #61, had me in stitches, so true


and SND's post later down the page, not as funny but yup. For sure :)
Nice,
problem is people lack philosophy, and the understanding that life is meaningless.
The only meaning is that which you apply.
Any what makes you happy is being happy, not a thing.
Learning philosophy should be a required hi school class for your last year.
As well as money and economics.
 
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My son Matt has a friend named Tim who likes to drink and forgets to go to work.

Tim is pretty sharp tooling wise but is only worth 12 to 15 bucks pay because he might not show up for work and works at one place until he gets fired. likely he works for guys who can only pay that much because of their machines and their skills to get work. That is fine, at least they get along.

The government out-lawing low pay puts the both on the street living in a tent.
A good example of Market Economy and Government Rules Everything is North Korea and South Korea. Both countries with near exactly the same resources and most would favor one country over the other. In north Korea everybody is near starving and the ruler guy is overweight.

*But this matter is not a Tooling or Manufacturing issue so should only be on a Hen’s Chatter website...talk for hours and acomplish nothing.

OT: you can put a radio with music in the hen house and the hens chatter more and produce more eggs..
 
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Right now on this forum there is a thread where a gentlemen is asking how to justify to his employers the need for automatic door openers for garage doors in their building.

Many many threads where employers talk about the struggles of finding work, the struggles of paying employees a good wage, the struggles of earning a profit just enough to get through the next month.

Yet employees are told that if they don’t like it they should go start their own business and see how hard it is for themselves.

Well when an employee is trying to give himself a better life, put a roof over his head, clothes on his back, and food on his table, and maybe provide for a wife and children and provide a good better life for them.

Why should that employee have any confidence in any employer if things are that bad? If things are truly that difficult and that financially oppressive why should an employee of any kind see it as a good career move?

I have never owned a business. I am asking from the eyes of someone who has been an employee in a company that had a forklift with a check engine light on for over 2 years.
There is no answer to your complaint given the domain of the discussion in it's entirety is on a case-by-case basis. If you've never owned a business, nor been in "upper" management or leadership, you don't have the perspective. That's where the advice of "try it yourself and see" comes in, and that's not necessarily a wrong view.

In your favor is the idea that some people are predatory, idiots, greedy, or careless, .etc., and if those kind of people are running a company they may be doing it poorly or even carelessly. Of course there are instances like this.

So what do you do? How do you evaluate? What's the criteria? Important to figure this out because this all leads to the idea do you stay or leave, or if you stay is there something you can do to help improve things?

Case by case basis. You can NOT assume the Company is just cutting corners carelessly. They might be, they might not be. So you have to adopt a case-by-case method of figuring this out so you can get closer to the truth to ground your decision making on more solid and measurable instead of less.

Do some reading. Come up to speed on what it takes to run a company. Consider what you learn, from finance and budget control, to payroll and spending allocations, loans and interest rates, evaluating "burden", juggling available business and customers, MANAGING PEOPLE, etc.

There can be NO one answer to your question. Each place is going to be different, run by different people either well or poorly, sitting in the middle of a city/state/county that has it's own economic and available labor profile.
 
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There is no answer to your complaint given the domain of the discussion in it's entirety is on a case-by-case basis. If you've never owned a business, nor been in "upper" management or leadership, you don't have the perspective. That's where the advice of "try it yourself and see" comes in, and that's not necessarily a wrong view.

In your favor is the idea that some people are predatory, idiots, greedy, or careless, .etc., and if those kind of people are running a company they may be doing it poorly or even carelessly. Of course there are instances like this.

So what do you do? How do you evaluate? What's the criteria? Important to figure this out because this all leads to the idea do you stay or leave, or if you stay is there something you can do to help improve things?

Case by case basis. You can NOT assume the Company is just cutting corners carelessly. They might be, they might not be. So you have to adopt a case-by-case method of figuring this out so you can get closer to the truth to ground your decision making on more solid and measurable instead of less.

Do some reading. Come up to speed on what it takes to run a company. Consider what you learn, from finance and budget control, to payroll and spending allocations, loans and interest rates, evaluating "burden", juggling available business and customers, MANAGING PEOPLE, etc.

There can be NO one answer to your question. Each place is going to be different, run by different people either well or poorly, sitting in the middle of a city/state/county that has it's own economic and available labor profile.

Great post. My original post was not a complaint. I worded it with the intention of it being a jumping off point for discussion.
 
In India some machinists may work bare foot and without safety glasses because that is what the economy of some shops can afford or are willing to provide and accept.

With that some India shops can beat our price making pretty decent lathes chucks. So, if we demand that all USA machinist must have shoes, safety glasses and air conditioning the USA will/may be out of business making lathe chucks.
In the USA even today some shops get along fine with not having a CMM and stay in bussiness. Some families in the USA get along fine with only having an outhouse. lately some poop on the sidwalk so we can see where the country is going.
 
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A rich Chinese man said to me ....When I drive my Rolls Royce car in Hong Kong,people say 'I can have such a car if I work hard and invest"............In Australia ,when I drive my other Rolls Royce ...people say I am a thieving Chinaman ,and must have a slave labour factory in China ...........( He owns the house next to me ,so his grandchildren can attend the local schools at the expense of Australian taxpayers.)
 
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I love that this thread has been so civil, that is great. But as an employee I can’t help but notice that when there is a thread about rising costs and high wages and troubles finding employees it will go on for pages and pages.

Where as a question that I think every single applicant should ask at a job interview which is why should they work for you and why should they have confidence in your business gets comparatively less posts.
 
Because 80% of the answer to that is simple -- $$$.

We're all whores, to a certain extent :)

But the answer to that will be to go elsewhere. Other sectors pay better for less work. Local to me that is the absolute truth. If you want to make money where I live, you won’t be knocking on machine shop doors handing in resumes.
 








 
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